• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* English Football Season 2011-12

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I dunno about Carroll. If his Cup Final etc was a sign of things to come and not a flash in the pan he can easily fit into a side playing good football, IMO. However, that's a big IF. He deserves the chance to fail next season but you'd have to think Rodgers will be looking for a top class forward as a priority this summer so it'll take a lot of hard wok from Carroll to keep his place.
I try not to admit it but I actually think Carroll's a pretty decent striker. He's just really, really out of place in a side whose game plan is to keep the ball on the ground. If they hold onto him it'll probably be as a Plan B on the bench.
 

Eds

International Debutant
So Kuyt has gone to Feherbahce, for approximately £1million. Bargain for them, and I'm sad to see him leave, but it's a good sign to see players of his technical quality [or lack thereof] leaving.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I try not to admit it but I actually think Carroll's a pretty decent striker. He's just really, really out of place in a side whose game plan is to keep the ball on the ground. If they hold onto him it'll probably be as a Plan B on the bench.
If you get Carroll some service then he'll score, whether it's in the air or along the ground. He's a decent finisher. Liverpool's strategy of giving him bits and pieces of games and possibly one decent ball a game isn't going to get the best out of him (or anyone).

One of the things I always find amusing with football is a forward who hardly ever gets a chance because the rest of the team are a bit **** is basically criticised for being 'quiet', whilst a guy who gets plenty of the ball but messes up the finish is supposed to have had a good game.

Good to see Liverpool finally get shot of Dirk Krap.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If you get Carroll some service then he'll score, whether it's in the air or along the ground. He's a decent finisher. Liverpool's strategy of giving him bits and pieces of games and possibly one decent ball a game isn't going to get the best out of him (or anyone).

One of the things I always find amusing with football is a forward who hardly ever gets a chance because the rest of the team are a bit **** is basically criticised for being 'quiet', whilst a guy who gets plenty of the ball but messes up the finish is supposed to have had a good game.

Good to see Liverpool finally get shot of Dirk Krap.
People that go to watch the matches will see that it's the players movement and runs that get them in the position to score goals, it doesn't just happen even with good service. Carroll may well have got terrible service but you would expect a striker to sniff out more goals for himself, over a season. Suarez seemed to get a few chances last year.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Haha what? They were one of the best teams at passing in the league, while Liverpool were one of the worst.
Really? In which facet? Pass completion, total passes, possession? Within a few % of each other. Liverpool were nowhere near the worst.

GIMH has my idea. Scoring goals is a huge facet of the game, but it tends to be more for the creation of chances which are difficult than finishing them. The creation of chances is more a team affair and as a team we are fine - we create a lot of chances. It is in the final third where a few players have been letting us down a lot. Liverpool had the worst goals to chance ratio in the league IIRC. That's just disgraceful, and if it was just a fraction better would have gotten us a far better result. As I said before, I just don't think that is going to be the case two years in a row. 30+ posts in the league alone, that's just unbelievable.

- Injuries aren't the be all and end all, but they can have an impact. The point is that who knows? If Van Persie gets injured, sold and not replaced, do you think Arsenal fans will be thinking of the same success just because they got by without some important players last year? There is a huge element of revisionism in your post. Half way through the season the Arsenal fans themselves weren't confident about their place in the top 4, that they finished so well was surprising. Yet with your goggles they should have never had the temerity to expect it. Yet they did it. So now this season you are going to expect it, simply because they did it? Unfortunately, especially in football these days, people have a hard time of thinking outside the CM or Fifa (computer game) box. If this happened last year, it is gonna happen next year. If you take X out they're going to be 4.5 % worse, etc. Your pigeonholing of teams makes sense only if you look purely at results and even then in short term and hindsight.

- Luck evens itself out. No, it doesn't. It usually may, but there will always be outliers of seasons. Last year Liverpool were unbelievably unlucky for a good portion of the season. As I argued before, football in many ways is a game of momentum. Players with confidence do different things. Even in a game situation, a sloppy goal, a comeback double-strike, etc, have great affects on games. Seasons share this trait.

- Looking at players: Barca is a far better team than Chelsea; Dortmund should have no business beating Bayern to the league; Liverpool should never go from runner-up to 6th in the space of a season; Newcastle shouldn't have had a chance of top 4; Harry never should have turned around Tottenham, etc. Football just doesn't work that way a lot of the time.

- Whether new players settle in well, whether the older players play as good as last year, whether injured players come back the same, etc, is just conjecture. We'll see when we see.

- Liverpool is a strange case, which is why your clearcut arguments miss the mark. Liverpool suffered injuries to important players, lost a very important player, and all of the off-field stuff culminated on draining the players in Rafa's last season. When Hodgson took over, he was simply the wrong coach trying to change too much. When Kenny took over half way the team ended up having the 2nd-3rd best record in the league for the rest of the season. This season, as has been discussed ad nauseam, Liverpool have wasted far too many chances. More than a lot of the worst teams in the major leagues in Europe. This year we played much better than we did last year if you look at performances, but last year the results were better. But taking chances is something that can be fixed in the span of a season. The defence is still amongst the best - despite numerous injuries to key players - and the creation of chances is amongst the best in Europe. We don't need wholesale changes to get into the top 4, we just need to take our chances. That's how - if - we do it.

Anyway, this is all a waste of time to argue. We will see next year.
 
Last edited:

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
People that go to watch the matches will see that it's the players movement and runs that get them in the position to score goals, it doesn't just happen even with good service. Carroll may well have got terrible service but you would expect a striker to sniff out more goals for himself, over a season. Suarez seemed to get a few chances last year.
I'd imagine Suarez had much longer on the pitch and was given a proper run of games. Also Liverpool like their hoofball, hopeful diagonal balls into the box trying to pick out Carroll so he can try and head a floaty ball into the top corner from 18 yards out, because chances are there'll be at best one other player anywhere near him. They're more likely to play this crap with Carroll on the pitch, so that works against him and by default for Suarez if you're comparing the two.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Oh and surprised no-one has mentioned Barton getting punched in the face, I'd make some comment that it is unfortunate how violent the yob culture is these days but we're all familiar with Barton anyway.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Oh and surprised no-one has mentioned Barton getting punched in the face, I'd make some comment that it is unfortunate how violent the yob culture is these days but we're all familiar with Barton anyway.
Haha was just coming in here to post about it

Poor Joey
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I can't imagine he's quite as keen on a square go as he is on cold-****ing someone from behind and continuing to wade in when the other chap's out cold on the floor or stubbing a cigar out on an apprentice's eyelid.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'd imagine Suarez had much longer on the pitch and was given a proper run of games. Also Liverpool like their hoofball, hopeful diagonal balls into the box trying to pick out Carroll so he can try and head a floaty ball into the top corner from 18 yards out, because chances are there'll be at best one other player anywhere near him. They're more likely to play this crap with Carroll on the pitch, so that works against him and by default for Suarez if you're comparing the two.
I agree with some of what you say, but the fact is Carroll is fairly immobile, he won't get that many chances because of that. 21 starts really isn't a poor amount of games, certainly enough for a quality striker to adjust to a style of play. Carroll was poor last year, he wasn't even physically that imposing.

TBF though he was better at the end of the season, and importantly looked a bit fitter, maybe the strain of a ridiculous price tag (not his fault), had an affect on him.

I actually think he could turn into a decent player next year, but he was dreadful for much of last.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
One of the things I always find amusing with football is a forward who hardly ever gets a chance because the rest of the team are a bit **** is basically criticised for being 'quiet', whilst a guy who gets plenty of the ball but messes up the finish is supposed to have had a good game.
I'm with grecian, I think the opposite is true. Football fans seem to have this concept of the striker permanently waiting in a goalscoring position waiting for someone to give him the ball so he can score. But when you actually try playing up front you realise that the movement it takes to get those opportunities is the hardest part of playing the position. It's bizarre that strikers who miss lots of chances tend to be rated lower than strikers who aren't involved at all. It's why so many plastic United fans still think we should be picking Berbatov or Hernandez instead of Welbeck.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm with grecian, I think the opposite is true. Football fans seem to have this concept of the striker permanently waiting in a goalscoring position waiting for someone to give him the ball so he can score. But when you actually try playing up front you realise that the movement it takes to get those opportunities is the hardest part of playing the position. It's bizarre that strikers who miss lots of chances tend to be rated lower than strikers who aren't involved at all. It's why so many plastic United fans still think we should be picking Berbatov or Hernandez instead of Welbeck.
It is often the same striker that is criticised for being 'quiet' (due to the rest of the team playing badly) that was complimented for his 'brilliant' performance the week before when he missed 3 sitters because he was 'lively' and a 'constant threat'.
 

Agent TBY

International Captain
Hazard to Chelsea a done deal, then. Their attacking midfield could possibly be set for years if he comes good, what with Mata around as well.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Azzar* says he's moving to Chelsea because he wants to be guaranteed first-team football, yeah ok mate.

*as I'm referring to him from now on, will help me differentiate from Micky, this is good it's like Falcao, not being confused with Mark Falco, which I often did.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Hazard to Chelsea a done deal, then. Their attacking midfield could possibly be set for years if he comes good, what with Mata around as well.
I know it was only a friendly etc... but I didn't see anything the other day to suggest he's better than anything they already have (i.e. Mata).
 

Eds

International Debutant
I know it was only a friendly etc... but I didn't see anything the other day to suggest he's better than anything they already have (i.e. Mata).
I'm sure they'll find a way to fit Hazard and Mata into the same side. Although if Hulk does end up signing then it would be difficult. You can't help but feel that if Torres returns to form, they'll have the [second?] best front four in the league.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Oh yeah, not a bad player to have by any means, but I think they could probably spend the money more wisely, is all.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Can't say I've seen enough of him to judge but a couple of football writers that do not normaly rush to hype a player think he is the real deal.

That front 4 could really be quite something, think they will need someone in central midfield to really cap it off though.
 

Agent TBY

International Captain
Re: Mata and Hazard, yeah I was talking more about them playing in the same side than one over the other. They're aged 24 and 21, and one of them's already a class act. If they manage to stay healthy and perform, they could lead the side for absolute ages. Maybe 32 million's a bit more than what they would've liked to spend, but it's a good investment nonetheless.

And speaking of a side that needs a central midfielder, United have signed Kagawa. Gotta love all that yen.
 

Top