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32nd Match - England v Australia
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Cruxdude
International Debutant
Batting wise yes Bangladesh is probably better than Pakistan but with Mahmudullah in crutches it does make things a bit closer. Pakistani bowling is still much better than Bangladesh though. The only weak link in the Pakistani bowling is Afridi right now and I think once the Pakistani team gets on a roll they can be a very tough opposition for Bangladesh.
Also how good of Srilanka to bring this WC back to life!
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wrongun
Banned
The bottomline with England is that they went from one end of the spectrum to the other. You cannot have similar type of batsmen throughout your lineup. Bowlers will adapt and adjust as they have in this WC with their lengths and the slower bouncer etc.
Having said that, Australia just bid their time, very well knowing that the garbage squads they put out would most likely not be the final product. Out of necessity they experimented which has added to their depth. As useless as Stoinis is, he can still refer to big moments in his head such as getting Virat out in a deciding game 5 in Delhi etc. While, their hand was forced due to the suspensions and injuries, I think Aus did a good job of staying afloat. They used the 3 SA ODI's and subsequently the tours of India and UAE to experiment with different approaches. Its as much a mindset as it is anything else.
England still have a chance to qualify for the semis and could go on to win. But they need to be flexible and it may be too late for that.
Having said that, Australia just bid their time, very well knowing that the garbage squads they put out would most likely not be the final product. Out of necessity they experimented which has added to their depth. As useless as Stoinis is, he can still refer to big moments in his head such as getting Virat out in a deciding game 5 in Delhi etc. While, their hand was forced due to the suspensions and injuries, I think Aus did a good job of staying afloat. They used the 3 SA ODI's and subsequently the tours of India and UAE to experiment with different approaches. Its as much a mindset as it is anything else.
England still have a chance to qualify for the semis and could go on to win. But they need to be flexible and it may be too late for that.
Zinzan
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Was always going to happen in my opinion with this English philosophy of attack attack and attack & to always back their batting depth. Some would call it confidence, some arrogance.
So when a side like NZ loses 2 early wickets, they look to consolidate, whereas a side like England feel they can always rely on the 'next' batsman.
I'd actually picked England to lose an important knockout game when the pressure was on, as opposed to struggling in the Pool games.
Mind, they're not out of it by any means and their fate is in their own hands in these last couple of games vs. India and NZ.
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From what I have seen, England are done.
This defeat would have broken England's confidence completely if it hadn't been cracked already in the previous game against Srilanka.
They need to win against the two undefeated teams. They have the potential to do well but they look shot now. They don't have the resilient spirit to get back up and suddenly play like champions.
It's unfortunate as their brand of ODI cricket was exciting and quite strong since 2016.
They did everything right from 2016 onwards till this tournament (except the Hales issue).
Looks like Pakistan are going to beat England to the 4th spot. Pakistan will like that England lost today and will be extra motivated for tomorrow against New Zealand.
If it turns out as such then teams should stop playing Bi lateral ODI series. Even tri series should be stopped. Because they are meaningless and show that no matter how hard you perform in them, it doesn't matter when the World Cup or ICC champ trophy takes place.
A team like Pakistan that has played horribly bad in the past 4 years is on the brink of a semis spot where as a team such as England, which did a whole revamp, worked hard as a team, played positive attacking cricket and attained the number one rank, is about to get kicked out of the tournament without a whimper.
This defeat would have broken England's confidence completely if it hadn't been cracked already in the previous game against Srilanka.
They need to win against the two undefeated teams. They have the potential to do well but they look shot now. They don't have the resilient spirit to get back up and suddenly play like champions.
It's unfortunate as their brand of ODI cricket was exciting and quite strong since 2016.
They did everything right from 2016 onwards till this tournament (except the Hales issue).
Looks like Pakistan are going to beat England to the 4th spot. Pakistan will like that England lost today and will be extra motivated for tomorrow against New Zealand.
If it turns out as such then teams should stop playing Bi lateral ODI series. Even tri series should be stopped. Because they are meaningless and show that no matter how hard you perform in them, it doesn't matter when the World Cup or ICC champ trophy takes place.
A team like Pakistan that has played horribly bad in the past 4 years is on the brink of a semis spot where as a team such as England, which did a whole revamp, worked hard as a team, played positive attacking cricket and attained the number one rank, is about to get kicked out of the tournament without a whimper.
This Australian side is only going to get better as well.
Langer and Ponting will move Smith to #3, I think Marsh more than likely comes in. He's starting to hit form and he isn't facing enough balls at his current position given how he can work the field.
Carey is so underrated, he's averaging around 35 @ 90 in ODI's now, he's been seeing them like watermelons most of the tournament.
Australia would do best to interchange him at #5 or #6 with Maxwell depending on the state of the game.
He should 100% bat above Stoinis. He's a good looking leftie as well, square shots remind me of Hussey.
Langer and Ponting will move Smith to #3, I think Marsh more than likely comes in. He's starting to hit form and he isn't facing enough balls at his current position given how he can work the field.
Carey is so underrated, he's averaging around 35 @ 90 in ODI's now, he's been seeing them like watermelons most of the tournament.
Australia would do best to interchange him at #5 or #6 with Maxwell depending on the state of the game.
He should 100% bat above Stoinis. He's a good looking leftie as well, square shots remind me of Hussey.
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Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Lol England.
Behrendorff is just a completely different bowler if there's any movement on offer.
Behrendorff is just a completely different bowler if there's any movement on offer.
James90
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm surprised that most pundits (the Wisden podcast I listened to today, the bookies, folks on here etc.) seem to think that Pakistan are the best chance of making the semis other than England and that they have an easy run home after the NZ game.
IMO, Bangladesh are the more balanced side and should be favourites to both win next Friday, and to progress to the semi-finals.
IMO, Bangladesh are the more balanced side and should be favourites to both win next Friday, and to progress to the semi-finals.
quincywagstaff
International Debutant
Amazing to think the possibility that after the humiliation of being pipped by Bangladesh for a spot in the knockouts of the 2015 WC, that England totally revolutionised their ODI cricket and proceeded to dominate the format which culminates in... the humiliation of being pipped by Bangladesh for a spot in the knockouts of the 2019 WC.
quincywagstaff
International Debutant
Congrats to Australia, they have been superb so far this tournament considering there are more holes in this squad than virtually any other WC side they've had this century.
What's surprised me about them is how smart they've been tactically. While all the talk and assumption pre-WC was about 400 scores being a regularly and how ultra-attacking batting is the way to go, the side went retro in how they build innings (haven't gone a run a ball in their opening 10 overs iirc) in being relatively circumspect and ensuring they have wickets in hand and it largely has worked superbly.
To date, I think the pivotal performance by Australia was by someone who didn't even play today. Australia's one performance where they departed their plan was against the West Indies and if they'd lost that it could've been a vastly different tournament for them but Coulter-Nile's 92 saved the day.
What's surprised me about them is how smart they've been tactically. While all the talk and assumption pre-WC was about 400 scores being a regularly and how ultra-attacking batting is the way to go, the side went retro in how they build innings (haven't gone a run a ball in their opening 10 overs iirc) in being relatively circumspect and ensuring they have wickets in hand and it largely has worked superbly.
To date, I think the pivotal performance by Australia was by someone who didn't even play today. Australia's one performance where they departed their plan was against the West Indies and if they'd lost that it could've been a vastly different tournament for them but Coulter-Nile's 92 saved the day.
quincywagstaff
International Debutant
I should add that I suspect Ponting's involvement with the team has been significant. He had his flaws as a Test captain but he was a master of the ODI format as his record showed and it wouldn't surprise as if he's been a leader in driving the way Australia have approached this tournament.
flibbertyjibber
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While at the same time forgoing test cricket because the one day specialist coach was crap at the longer form.
wrongun
Banned
Actually a lot worse happened to Australia not too long ago, and they persevered. Its just mental fortitude and an ability to adapt. Many idiots talk about being positive etc its all bull****. Cricket is a game that needs you to adapt, not be 'positive' aka hack at everything and pretend like its perfect. Things get grim you adjust and deal with it. Too many coaches these days have their heads up their asses and i their laptops. The game is being played out there in the middle not on a data sheet. A laptop will help you with plan A but your instinct for the game will allow you to go to PLAN B and C. That's why players such as Warne and Dhoni were world beaters and the English never are. All's hunk dory till youre within the confines of your structure....the moment it falls apart they wouldnt know what to do. Aussie players served more than the ICC mandated sanctions. They deserve all the success they get.
Even if Aus don't go on to win this, I think they have proven one thing. Never count them out....and the Pommies always choke
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I must say I can't wait for the analysis by CricViz's Freddie Wilde about how Vince was actually really unlucky to be bowled neck and crop.
wrongun
Banned
But SKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Which is exactly the same problem South Africa had for so many years - their game plan was too rigid and they fell apart when it failed them.Actually a lot worse happened to Australia not too long ago, and they persevered. Its just mental fortitude and an ability to adapt. Many idiots talk about being positive etc its all bull****. Cricket is a game that needs you to adapt, not be 'positive' aka hack at everything and pretend like its perfect. Things get grim you adjust and deal with it. Too many coaches these days have their heads up their asses and i their laptops. The game is being played out there in the middle not on a data sheet. A laptop will help you with plan A but your instinct for the game will allow you to go to PLAN B and C. That's why players such as Warne and Dhoni were world beaters and the English never are. All's hunk dory till youre within the confines of your structure....the moment it falls apart they wouldnt know what to do. Aussie players served more than the ICC mandated sanctions. They deserve all the success they get.
Even if Aus don't go on to win this, I think they have proven one thing. Never count them out....and the Pommies always choke
Whoever said that England and South Africa had swapped places this world cup is on the money.