Tests: Chappell vs. Ponting

[The Sean]

Though i voted for Chappell,i ahve to say there is a tendency to overrate him due to the world series cricket.

Why do you think he is overrated because of WSC?

Chappell played only 17 tests away from England and Australia.And in the 15 tests he played in England he averaged 40.

I CBF looking up right now, but what was his record in those 17 Tests?

 

[Maximus0723]

That run of poor form lasted about 6-8 weeks ftr. Form is like injury I suppose, part of the game and how one deals with it, be it in the early 80s, or indeed in the early part of the 2000s or in the 2010s would be a factor in assessing one's record, wouldn't you agree?

yea

 

[Matt79]

Why do you think he is overrated because of WSC?



I CBF looking up right now, but what was his record in those 17 Tests?

Record outside of Aus and UK = 17 matches, 27 innings, 1575 runs @ 65.62, including 5 centuries and 6 fifties - including averaging 70+ in Pakistan and NZ (during the time of Hadlee), and 48 in the West Indies. Not really shabby. And should point out that 17 matches is around a fifth of his cricket. Given that half your cricket is going to be at home, that's still a low ratio, but not significantly so.

 

[Ikki]

If you look at Chappell's record both home and away, his consistency across all opponents is remarkable. He has only a solitary instance where he averages sub-40 against any opponent home or away. FTR that is his record at home to New Zealand where he averaged 36.25 in 6 Tests.

Doesn't get near the amount of respect he deserves. For the older followers, why is that?

 

[social]

If you look at Chappell's record both home and away, his consistency across all opponents is remarkable. He has only a solitary instance where he averages sub-40 against any opponent home or away. FTR that is his record at home to New Zealand where he averaged 36.25 in 6 Tests.

Doesn't get near the amount of respect he deserves. For the older followers, why is that?

TBH, I think it's only in certain circles e.g. younger generation of posters on forums such as this

Having grown up watching IVA and Greg, I'd back those 2 against, say, Lara and Ponting most days of the week

Furthermore, I find it laughable when people criticise the likes of Hayden and Sehwag because those 2 didnt compete in the tougher conditions of the 70s and 80s and then have question marks about the 2 most dominant players from that very same era (apologies to Sunny - he was regarded as a great technician but behind the others and Barry Richards in his ability to dominate a match with strokeplay)

 

[Burgey]

TBH, I think it's only in certain circles e.g. younger generation of posters on forums such as this

Having grown up watching IVA and Greg, I'd back those 2 against, say, Lara and Ponting most days of the week

Furthermore, I find it laughable when people criticise the likes of Hayden and Sehwag because those 2 didnt compete in the tougher conditions of the 70s and 80s and then have question marks about the 2 most dominant players from that very same era (apologies to Sunny - he was regarded as a great technician but behind the others and Barry Richards in his ability to dominate a match with strokeplay)

This.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's interesting how little (relatively) respect Greg Chappell gets

I found it laughable that the some of the Indian team (apparently) wouldnt listen to him when he was coach

Chappell GS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (sorry, got sick of pressing the > button) than any Indian player other than Tendy and even then it's a >

IMO, he's better than Ponting AND Tendy but slightly behind IVA and well behind Bradman

social, please refrain from attempting to sidetrack the discussion so early in the piece. Whilst loosely related to the thread, it doesn't concern the central topic and is going to steer the conversation away from the thread title in only the third post of the thread.

 

[Sanz]

What makes a batsman like Greg Chappell over-rated ?

YouTube - Greg Chappell 112 v England ( Ashes 1977 )

 

[Maximus0723]

Awesome inning.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Great clip.

How good was the back foot drive at about 0:32! The cover drive off Miller, between the miniscule gap at mid-off and cover, was awesome too. Inside out against the off-spin. And the disdain after driving Willis through mid-on for four to bring up his ton.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Ponting is a great player when he is on top of things, among the very best the game has produced. But there is a fragility about him when out of touch that I don't see in the other top, top players. When down, even mediocre bowlers stand a good chance of really getting to him.

Pietersen has the same weakness, but far worse.

 

[Burgey]

Great clip.

How good was the back foot drive at about 0:32! The cover drive off Miller, between the miniscule gap at mid-off and cover, was awesome too. Inside out against the off-spin. And the disdain after driving Willis through mid-on for four to bring up his ton.

It is a great clip. Shows him at his best there - his on-driving was always sublime too. The clip also demonstrates how the greats just score all around the wicket. One of our best ever players.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Ponting is a great player when he is on top of things, among the very best the game has produced. But there is a fragility about him when out of touch that I don't see in the other top, top players. When down, even mediocre bowlers stand a good chance of really getting to him.

Pietersen has the same weakness, but far worse.

Brian Lara.

 

[Sanz]

The only thing I find lacking in Chappell's resume is that he didn't play enough in subcontinent and I don't say it negatively. I think he would have done well there, as well as he did elsewhere. But the lack of no. of tests does go against him for those who may want to compare him against the likes of Richards, Gavaskar etc.

I

 

[social]

The only thing I find lacking in Chappell's resume is that he didn't play enough in subcontinent and I don't say it negatively. I think he would have done well there, as well as he did elsewhere. But the lack of no. of tests does go against him for those who may want to compare him against the likes of Richards, Gavaskar etc.

I

For whatever reason, Oz rarely played in India in the 70s/80s and only slightly more frequently in Pakistan

Chappell toured Pakistan at least once, scored a big double hundred and declared it "the worst pitch that he'd ever played on" as it gave the bowlers no chance

I think he withdrew from anouther tour to Pak on health grounds (he was never the most healthy guy but that might just have been an excuse to get out of touring an unpopular destination)

 

[Sanz]

For whatever reason, Oz rarely played in India in the 70s/80s and only slightly more frequently in Pakistan

Only 9 Tests in 20 years. Only 6 tests in Chappell's career.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Brian Lara.

Perhaps, but Lara had a style of his own, stood out a mile and there was always going to be a hit and miss element to his game.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Unfortunately in England we rarely saw Chappell at his best and there wasn't the wall to wall overseas coverage that there is now. He still wins the poll though, in fact Ponting is just about good enough to borrow his hat.

 

[Briony]

I'm by no means trying to put Chappell down in anyway, shape or form. I'm just stating the facts, that he shouldn't be rated ahead of Ponting merely on the basis that he succeeded against the great Windies attack (which if you look closer, he didn't do much better then any other batsman from that era against the stronger Windies sides).

Given that the only real difference to the bowling standards that Chappell had to face compared to Ponting is the great Windies attack (which Chappell only faced at the latter end of his career); Ponting has a higher overall batting average, averages 47+ against all Test playing nations and will most likely end his career with double the amount of Tests then Chappell with a higher overall average. That should be enough to give Punter the slight edge.

On average Chappell faced much better English attacks than Punter. And there was the 1972 series where a couple of tracks were really conducive to the seamers and he made a ton in the "Massie" test when the ball was swinging prodigiously. Chappell had a poor series against the Windies in 81/2 but copped a few unplayable balls and at least one questionable decision. In those days they could virtually bowl as many bouncers per over as they wished and rarely bowled half volleys. He made a half ton in the series when the batsmen crumbled around him and he had his thumb broken early. Hadlee also rated him as the best batsman from that era. Punter has never really had to face any greats from kiwiland and himself looked very vulnerable when he began his career at #3 against the moving ball. I think if Chappell faced that very good Windies attack in the Caribbean as he did in Supersets he would have done very well in test cricket. Remember in those days the Aussie pitches tended to have a lot more grass. I doubt any batsman would have consistently succeeded against them in Australia, under those short-pitched bowling rules and on those more juicy tracks.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

On average Chappell faced much better English attacks than Punter. And there was the 1972 series where a couple of tracks were really conducive to the seamers and he made a ton in the "Massie" test when the ball was swinging prodigiously. Chappell had a poor series against the Windies in 81/2 but copped a few unplayable balls and at least one questionable decision. In those days they could virtually bowl as many bouncers per over as they wished and rarely bowled half volleys. He made a half ton in the series when the batsmen crumbled around him and he had his thumb broken early. Hadlee also rated him as the best batsman from that era. Punter has never really had to face any greats from kiwiland and himself looked very vulnerable when he began his career at #3 against the moving ball. I think if Chappell faced that very good Windies attack in the Caribbean as he did in Supersets he would have done very well in test cricket. Remember in those days the Aussie pitches tended to have a lot more grass. I doubt any batsman would have consistently succeeded against them in Australia, under those short-pitched bowling rules and on those more juicy tracks.

Ponting never faced any great bowlers from Kiwiland? Shane Bond was just as bout as good as any bowler that's ever played the game when he got on the park. Ponting's also one of the best players of the short ball in the history of the game and virtually scores most of his runs through the legside, so lack of half-vollies wouldn't effect Punter's game too much. Ponting's 156 on the last day of the Old Trafford pitch on a minefield, overcast conditions and a 4-man pace attack was just as bout as good as any innings that Chappell ever played.