Hadlee, Khan, Dev, Botham - Who was the best allrounder?

[Bahnz]

You'd have to say Hadlee stands out as the best in an individual field but is the least 'rounded' of the four. So depends what you're looking/asking for, as a bowling all-rounder he is second to none.

I don't know about that. Imran had a similarly fantastic bowling record, built on the hard clay of Pakistani pitches, and was able to fashion a considerably superior batting record. Sure Hadlee took more wickets per match, but that was by and large because of his vast superiority to the rest of the New Zealand bowling lineup.

 

[Athlai]

I don't know about that. Imran had a similarly fantastic bowling record, built on the hard clay of Pakistani pitches, and was able to fashion a considerably superior batting record. Sure Hadlee took more wickets per match, but that was by and large because of his vast superiority to the rest of the New Zealand bowling lineup.

My point regarding Hadlee is based mostly on Hadlee's position as one of the top 2-3 bowlers ever when CW recently held a fast bowler battle. Finished 2nd IIRC

 

[vic_orthdox]

Botham, because he was more likely to make a match winning contribution with bat and ball in the same match.

On 5 occasions, Botham took a 5for and scored a century in the same Test - a feat only accomplished 26 times in Test history, and other than Botham, only Garry Sobers, Mushtaq Mohammad and Jacques Kallis (all twice) have managed it more than once.

Imran is the only other one of the great allrounders of the 80s to have accomplished that feat, but unlike Botham (3 times), Kapil Dev (twice) or Richard Hadlee (once), Imran never managed to take 20 wickets and score 250 runs in the same series.

Impression that I've got is that the last stat is affected by the lack of opportunities that a Pakistani player would have to play in five match series.

 

[kingkallis]

Imran, Hadlee, Botham & kapil

Hadlee was perhaps the single most reason why New Zealand was such a formidable force in the 80s.

Imran, nothing to be said.

Botham was godly in the first half of his career and pedestrian towards the end.

Kapil was perhaps the hardest worker of the lot and the most mercurial. He indeed revolutionised Indian fast bowling and became the first pan Indian sporting icon but had a tinge of Botham impact wherein he couldn't keep up in his later years.

I agree! He was not that gifted as Imran or Botham.

It is not a joke to take 400+ wickets on Indian soils...yet Kapil did it! I respect him for his efforts and hard work...

 

[kingkallis]

Botham, because he was more likely to make a match winning contribution with bat and ball in the same match.

On 5 occasions, Botham took a 5for and scored a century in the same Test - a feat only accomplished 26 times in Test history, and other than Botham, only Garry Sobers, Mushtaq Mohammad and Jacques Kallis (all twice) have managed it more than once.

Imran is the only other one of the great allrounders of the 80s to have accomplished that feat, but unlike Botham (3 times), Kapil Dev (twice) or Richard Hadlee (once), Imran never managed to take 20 wickets and score 250 runs in the same series.

Originally quoted by Sir Alex :

Botham was godly in the first half of his career and pedestrian towards the end.

 

[Migara]

the same Test - a feat only accomplished 26 times in Test history, and other than Botham, only Garry Sobers, Mushtaq Mohammad and Jacques Kallis (all twice) have managed it more than once.

H managed it against WI, which Botham never managed even individually. Mushtaq > Botham if you consider who is the better match winnet at the "peak". And peak is such a loose term, it could define 1 match or 50 matches.

 

[Smudge]

I still like Hadlee's take on it, which I paraphrased here

 

[Jacknife]

Botham, because he was more likely to make a match winning contribution with bat and ball in the same match.

On 5 occasions, Botham took a 5for and scored a century in the same Test - a feat only accomplished 26 times in Test history, and other than Botham, only Garry Sobers, Mushtaq Mohammad and Jacques Kallis (all twice) have managed it more than once.

Imran is the only other one of the great allrounders of the 80s to have accomplished that feat, but unlike Botham (3 times), Kapil Dev (twice) or Richard Hadlee (once), Imran never managed to take 20 wickets and score 250 runs in the same series.

Agree,Botham for me.

 

[weldone]

Among 70s and 80s all-rounders:

1. Imran Khan
2. Ian Botham
3. Kapil Dev, Clive Rice
5. Mike Procter, Richard Hadlee

 

[weldone]

I still like Hadlee's take on it, which I paraphrased here

Interesting...

 

[andyc]

Having not really thought hugely about which of the four I consider the best, was shocked last time I went to a trivia night when the answer to 'the only player to have 5000+ runs and 400+ wickets' was Kapil Dev. Yes he played more Tests than the others, but that's still quite an achievement.

 

[weldone]

Having not really thought hugely about which of the four I consider the best, was shocked last time I went to a trivia night when the answer to 'the only player to have 5000+ runs and 400+ wickets' was Kapil Dev. Yes he played more Tests than the others, but that's still quite an achievement.

True...I consider him not as good as Botham. But they're certainly comparable.

And he's by far the best all-rounder among the 4 in ODIs, no doubt about that.

 

[GIMH]

Clive Rice was better then all of them.

Anyway with Benchmark being unbanned, isn't it time to bring back Shane Warne (the poster not the fat drug cheat), would make the Ashes much more fun

Pretty sure he'll be about, just with a different name

Impression that I've got is that the last stat is affected by the lack of opportunities that a Pakistani player would have to play in five match series.

Aye, this was my thought too. Englishmen and Aussies are always most likely to top those sort of charts. I mean, as much as I love Freddie I'm not going to try and argue he's a better all-rounder than Imran but he has a series where he took 24 wickets and scored 402 runs....

 

[Jarquis]

Pizzorno better be around this winter.

 

[Sanz]

Having not really thought hugely about which of the four I consider the best, was shocked last time I went to a trivia night when the answer to 'the only player to have 5000+ runs and 400+ wickets' was Kapil Dev. Yes he played more Tests than the others, but that's still quite an achievement.

Kapil could end up with much better records had he not been used as both stock and strike bowler throughout his career. It is hard to imagine that through out his career Kapil had not one single fast bowler to support him.

 

[Cevno]

Kapil could end up with much better records had he not been used as both stock and strike bowler throughout his career. It is hard to imagine that through out his career Kapil had not one single fast bowler to support him.

Actually this was in the trivia thread recently,

But in all the tests India Kapil played for India he always opened the bowling .Never was he even first change as a allrounder.

 

[Jarquis]

Actually this was in the trivia thread recently,

But in all the tests India Kapil played for India he always opened the bowling .Never was he even first change as a allrounder.

Bowled about 20 overs not as an opener tbf.
Was second and third chance for around 16 and 4 overs respectively iirc.

 

[Sanz]

Bowled about 20 overs not as an opener tbf.
Was second and third chance for around 16 and 4 overs respectively iirc.

Well that was just one inning (2nd inning) in a test match in 1981 in Australia, where he opened the bowling for India in the first inning. Needless to say that he came back to bowl in the second inning and took 5 wickets and helped India win the melbourne test.

 

[Top_Cat]

Bah, I choose to decide his greatness by excluding matches where he opened the bowling (getting the new ball is an unfair advantage).

Kapil? More like Krapil.

 

[Faisal1985]