Hadlee, Khan, Dev, Botham - Who was the best allrounder?

[BhupinderSingh]

Imran a better bat than Botham is highly debatable. But a "significantly" better bat is ********.

Botham never averaged 40 with the bateven at his peak.Averaged 32 from 1978-1982 when he was at his allround peak which means he played a very very few good innings & failed a lot whereas Imran was consistent.

 

[Matt79]

Think you're significantly selling both Botham and Sobers short there, but we've been over this ground before and agreed to disagree. Botham was an awesome bowler pre-injuries, and Sobers was moderate-to-good (but agreed not great). It simply comes down to a matter of opinion as to what is more important to you.

 

[Migara]

Think you're significantly selling both Botham and Sobers short there, but we've been over this ground before and agreed to disagree. Botham was an awesome bowler pre-injuries, and Sobers was moderate-to-good (but agreed not great). It simply comes down to a matter of opinion as to what is more important to you.

But Imran at his peak was class above than Botham in is peak. In their nadirs, Botham was a pie chucker, but Imran still was a bowler who got immense respect.

 

[Ikki]

Botham never averaged 40 with the bateven at his peak.Averaged 32 from 1978-1982 when he was at his allround peak which means he played a very very few good innings & failed a lot whereas Imran was consistent.

Botham batted higher up and didn't inflate his average on a lot of not-outs. He has 4 more 50s and 8 more 100s in only 35 more innings. He averages about 10 more runs per inning than Imran. One of the most overrated stats in cricket is Imran's period of averaging more than 50 with the bat. Also, Imran's batting improved as he bowled less.

 

[JBH001]

Don't forget Botham's 60 SR. IIRC up until Botham finally plunged off the cliff post 86/87 his SR was 64/65.

Edit: Sorry 63.

 

[Matt79]

But Imran at his peak was class above than Botham in is peak. In their nadirs, Botham was a pie chucker, but Imran still was a bowler who got immense respect.

If we're talking just in bowling terms I don't think it's that cut and dried re respective peaks, but I don't pretend to have studied it as closely as some here.

 

[honestbharani]

If we're talking just in bowling terms I don't think it's that cut and dried re respective peaks, but I don't pretend to have studied it as closely as some here.

you mean like statsguru?

 

[Jarquis]

Over the 10 Tests, there's only 119 runs of a difference, and Player A has more wickets to his name.

Player B is a steady performer with exceptional stats, but isn't likely to win you many Tests by himself. Whereas Player A can be a matchwinner with bat, ball, or both. With all-rounders, you have to be careful when you're analysing stats.

Player A also contributes less, more often as well though.

 

[Migara]

Botham batted higher up and didn't inflate his average on a lot of not-outs. He has 4 more 50s and 8 more 100s in only 35 more innings. He averages about 10 more runs per inning than Imran. One of the most overrated stats in cricket is Imran's period of averaging more than 50 with the bat. Also, Imran's batting improved as he bowled less.

This myth was smashed by C_C in an earlier post

 

[Ikki]

C_C

 

[Migara]

smiley's don't cover the facts.

 

[Sanz]

smiley's don't cover the facts.

Neither does C_C

 

[Sanz]

Exactly.Imran,Hadlee,Wasim & Davidson ahead of any other allrounder in history on bowling alone.With an exception of Garry"I bowl every style crap"Sobers probably.People keep saying how good Ian"Let me bowl & you just hope"Botham was at his peak but dodn't understand that he had a very short peak of 4 years whereas Imran maintained a batting averaging of 50+ with the bat & under 20 with the ball for last 53 matches of his career.And its all about performing in a single series or 2,Mushtaq Muhammad would be the greatest allronder ever.

This is the kind of name calling is really what drives many members away from the forum who want to contribute positively to this discussion. This comes up every time there is a discussion on All rounders and Bhupinder always shows up to post such drivel.

 

[slowfinger]

smiley's don't cover the facts.

 

[Cevno]

you mean like statsguru?

Speaking of Statistics ,Imran beats all others Hands down on that front.

 

[bagapath]

After 25 tests

• Botham:1336 137 40.48 6 139 8/34 18.52 14 36 0
  Kapil: 1023 126* 33.00 1 100 7/56 26.73 6 10 0
  Imran: 832 59 22.48 0 98 6/63 31.88 5 9 0
  Hadlee: 786 87 19.17 0 102 7/23 30.51 5 14 0

After 50 tests

• Botham: 2625 149* 36.45 10 229 8/34 22.89 19 58 0
  Imran: 2008 123 31.87 2 232 8/58 22.91 16 16 0
  Kapil: 2129 126* 32.25 3 200 8/85 29.33 15 17 0
  Hadlee: 1820 103 24.59 1 235 7/23 23.94 18 28 0

After 75 tests

• Botham: 4321 208 36.61 13 326 8/34 26.20 25 86 0
  Imran: 3000 135* 33.70 4 341 8/58 22.04 23 25 0
  Kapil: 3075 126* 30.14 3 286 9/83 28.57 19 33 0
  Hadlee: 2788 151* 27.33 2 378 9/52 22.33 33 36 0

Final standings

• Imran: 3807 136 37.69 6 362 8/58 22.81 23 28 0
  Botham:5200 208 33.54 14 383 8/34 28.40 27 120 0
  Kapil: 5248 163 31.05 8 434 9/83 29.64 23 64 0
  Hadlee: 3124 151* 27.16 2 431 9/52 22.29 36 39 0

 

[vcs]

Thanks for those stats Bagapath, it illustrates just how amazing Botham was for 50-odd Tests.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

This myth was smashed by C_C in an earlier post

Migara,its always a good idea to come up with smilies when you don't have logical answers to write off others opinions/questions.Thats what some of the members do here whenever I post a fact relating to an allrounder.Thats why I don't give a heck to what some of these people say.I consider Sobers as a crap bowler & I have reasons for it which I have posted many times on this forum.I consider others as inferior allrounders to Imran but I atleast have logic for what I say,instead of smilies.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

This is the kind of name calling is really what drives many members away from the forum who want to contribute positively to this discussion. This comes up every time there is a discussion on All rounders and Bhupinder always shows up to post such drivel.

Yes,I believe him to be a crap bowler & I have explained it many times why.If you don't agree with someone,doesn't mean you try to snatch the right of free speech/expression away from them.

 

[honestbharani]

Yes,I believe him to be a crap bowler & I have explained it many times why.If you don't agree with someone,doesn't mean you try to snatch the right of free speech/expression away from them.

Others have explained to you why he is not.. This will be the equivalent of me comg out in every thread stating Imran "I am crap with the bat but manage to stay not out every time to boost my average" Khan is the worst allrounder ever....


YOu need to learn to let your opinions go when others find offensive.. Your "freedom" of expression is only so long as it doesn't hurt others' experience of this forum... Or you can juz continue to post the drivel in some marooned blog...