Fast bowler survival round quarter and semi finals

[Days of Grace]

I just want to make it clear that this contest being about fast bowlers really only refers to the style of bowling. I really just wanted to discount the prominent spinners - Warne, Murali, O'Reilly, Grimmet etc...

The primary ability a fast bowler needs is the ability to take wickets.

How you rate each of the different attributes of how a fast bowler went about their business is up to you...

For the record, I would have liked to have seen Waqar at his peak play Australia at home. Would have been a real contest (Tubby vs Pakistan?).

I hear ya.

I fact, I was thinking after I voted, "why would I vote Waqar over McGrath, and yet vote for Hadlee instead of Lillee?" Because Hadlee and McGrath were very similar types of "fast" bowlers.

 

[andyc]

Do you know how good was Imran's peak?Imran criminally beats all other not only in terms of peak but also as overall record as an allrounder.

Another thing,these votes & polls hardly show who was better who because most people vote on basis of other things rather than true performance & ability of players.

Except it's a battle that concentrates on bowling only; other skills have nothing at all to do with it. And, assuming you're saying that patriotism is playing a role here, while it probably does a bit with all of these things, it's worth pointing out that Imran lost out to Ambrose, and there's not really a lot of West Indians on the forum.

 

[weldone]

You misunderstand me... But I'd take Botham's all-rounder peak over anyone else's.

I think it's you who misunderstood. Your previous post said that Botham's peak as a bowler was better than most other fast bowlers, and probably better than all all-rounders; which, I'm afraid to say, is certainly not true.

Now, if you make the same point for Botham's all-round peak, that certainly makes more sense (though Miller had a ridiculously astonishing peak as an all-rounder).

 

[Teja.]

I think it's you who misunderstood. Your previous post said that Botham's peak as a bowler was better than most other fast bowlers, and probably better than all all-rounders; which, I'm afraid to say, is certainly not true.

Now, if you make the same point for Botham's all-round peak, that certainly makes more sense (though Miller had a ridiculously astonishing peak as an all-rounder).

Okay, To clarify what I meant, Botham's peak as a bowler alone is phenomenal.(rivalled perhaps by Waqar, Steyn, Lillee, Imran and a few more)

Botham's peak as an all-rounder, during the same period as the above, is IMO unrivalled[though the statement can be questioned and Imran had a slightly worse off peak(as an all-rounder) but a much much longer one]

 

[weldone]

Okay, To clarify what I meant, Botham's peak as a bowler alone is phenomenal.(rivalled perhaps by Waqar, Steyn, Lillee, Imran and a few more)

Botham's peak as an all-rounder, during the same period as the above, is IMO unrivalled[though the statement can be questioned and Imran had a slightly worse off peak(as an all-rounder) but a much much longer one]

a lot more

 

[weldone]

I hear ya.

I fact, I was thinking after I voted, "why would I vote Waqar over McGrath, and yet vote for Hadlee instead of Lillee?" Because Hadlee and McGrath were very similar types of "fast" bowlers.

You can change your vote even now, if you wish to.

 

[Teja.]

a lot more

To be fair, very few have peaks as good as this one

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Yes, there are perhaps a handful(or a little more) bowlers with better peaks, but it is definitely a phenomenal peak nonetheless and Botham definitely did not look a shade of the bowler he was after his peak.

 

[Days of Grace]

How fast was the young Botham at his peak? In the 135km/h range?

 

[Teja.]

How fast was the young Botham at his peak? In the 135km/h range?

There were no speed guns then but I'd safely estimate 140 kmph+ with prodigious movement.

 

[Matt79]

Do you know how good was Imran's peak?Imran criminally beats all other not only in terms of peak but also as overall record as an allrounder.

Another thing,these votes & polls hardly show who was better who because most people vote on basis of other things rather than true performance & ability of players.If its all about polls only then Imran got almost 3 times as much votes as Garry"I bowl every style crap"Sobers got in GREATEST ALLROUNDER EVER POLL but those biased idiots rated Sobers as better.

Yeah, it's only because of their benighted ignorance that people could possibly disagree with you.

 

[Ikki]

Pfft. You're just biased Matt.

 

[Migara]

Waqar and Marshall, because I am biased.

 

[Days of Grace]

There were no speed guns then but I'd safely estimate 140 kmph+ with prodigious movement.

I don't know about that.

Watching videos on youtube, you get the impression he would be maxing out in the 135km/h range.

Certainly after about 1985, he looked to be about 125km/h.

 

[The Sean]

He definitely slowed down as age and weight caught up with him, but he could be genuinely fast in his younger days. Not always, mind - he varied his pace quite a bit - but when he decided to be he was quicker than most.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

Yeah, it's only because of their benighted ignorance that people could possibly disagree with you.

No,thats not the case Matt.I've always backed my arguments with stats & other reasons as to why Imran is the best ever in many threads on this forum(I think u would be familiar with some,if not many) but what I really hate is when people start claiming X player is better than why because:

1.They r saying so & have no proper reasons to ague for what they r saying.
2.Others rate X better than Y,hence no logic.
3.X is from their country or same ethinic background.

And I don't like Imran because he's a Pakistani.If that was the case,I would've been a hardcore Pakistan supporter but there's hardly any other guy on this forum who bashes Pakistan Cricket Board & players as much as I do.

Now in this poll,McGrath>Waqar & Marshall>Wasim(Of course the difference in both cases is slight) but no way on earth is Ambrose better than Imran.

 

[weldone]

No,thats not the case Matt.I've always backed my arguments with stats & other reasons as to why Imran is the best ever in many threads on this forum(I think u would be familiar with some,if not many) but what I really hate is when people start claiming X player is better than why because:

1.They r saying so & have no proper reasons to ague for what they r saying.
2.Others rate X better than Y,hence no logic.
3.X is from their country or same ethinic background.

And I don't like Imran because he's a Pakistani.If that was the case,I would've been a hardcore Pakistan supporter but there's hardly any other guy on this forum who bashes Pakistan Cricket Board & players as much as I do.

Now in this poll,McGrath>Waqar & Marshall>Wasim(Of course the difference in both cases is slight) but no way on earth is Ambrose better than Imran.

I agree with the bold part.

 

[stephen]

This poll has now closed.

McGrath and Marshall Progress

McGrath 19 def Waqar 9

Marshall 27 def Akram 1

Semi Final 1

Glenn McGrath vs Malcolm Marshall

Glenn McGrath
"Pigeon" is the highest wicket taking test match fast bowler of all time. And he did it during the highest scoring era of world cricket.
Glenn McGrath | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Malcolm Marshall
Malcolm Marshall could do anything with the ball. But the thing he did most often was take wickets.
Malcolm Marshall | West Indies Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Semi final 2

Richard Hadlee vs Curtly Ambrose

Sir Richard Hadlee
"Paddles" is one of the highest wicket taking bowlers of all time, and New Zealand's best cricketer.
Sir Richard Hadlee | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Curtly Ambrose
Knowing this man was bowling made me scared. I wasn't even playing.
Curtly Ambrose | West Indies Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Votes will close on the weekend when I get a chance.

 

[weldone]

Semi-finals are relatively much easier than some of the earlier battles for me.

Malcolm Marshall

Richard Hadlee

Come on, bring on the big final.

 

[Himannv]

Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose

 

[stephen]

Semi-finals are relatively much easier than some of the earlier battles for me.

Malcolm Marshall

Richard Hadlee

Come on, bring on the big final.

It's coming very soon, though I am pretty sure who will win