Fast bowler survival round quarter and semi finals

[stephen]

The case of Ambrose vs Garner seems more puzzling to me. I don't really understand how people (cricketwebple) differentiate between those 2 giant fast bowlers. Both of them were equally intimidating, had the same weapons, looked like being equal in pace, showed similar control, were equally successful against batsmen of the highest quality, had pretty long careers etc etc. Yet Garner didn't even get through to the quarters here, and Ambrose has a great chance of getting to the semis.

Might be a case of short memory, I guess.

Yeah I would have personally run with Garner over Waqar, but it was a pretty big thumping in the end 16-6. Similarly, Holding vs Imran should never have been such a huge thumping (13-4) IMO.

 

[Slifer]

The case of Ambrose vs Garner seems more puzzling to me. I don't really understand how people (cricketwebple) differentiate between those 2 giant fast bowlers. Both of them were equally intimidating, had the same weapons, looked like being equal in pace, showed similar control, were equally successful against batsmen of the highest quality, had pretty long careers etc etc. Yet Garner didn't even get through to the quarters here, and Ambrose has a great chance of getting to the semis.

Might be a case of short memory, I guess.

My sentiments exactly. I probably would have had Garner over Waqar but i think its more a case of the uninitiated not really seeing Garner perform live like for example i did. And in the case of Garner vs Amby, Garner had a better average, SR, WPM and econ than AMby. Also he had that secret weapon ala his toe-crushing yorker which was as effective as any such yorker b4 or after. In fact he outclasses pretty much all the other bowlers in the semis in these categories save Marshall .

 

[weldone]

Personally my top 12 would have been Hadlee, Marshall, Barnes, McGrath, Lohmann, Imran, Ambrose, Garner, Lillee, Akram, Davidson, Trueman.

Some choices are pretty clear to me, for example Hadlee over McGrath or Imran over Akram...while some others aren't that clear (the order among Hadlee, Marshall and Barnes; the choice between Ambrose and Garner; the choice between Akram and Davidson; and also the exact rank of Lohmann among the other 11 greats). But these 12 are 'almost' surely my top 12 fast bowlers of all-time.

Though I won't keep Waqar in my top 12, I must admit that I believe he had the potential to be better than all of them...

 

[Teja.]

Personally rate Waqar over anyone else and only have too think for a while about it if it between him and Hadlee/Marshall, but can see why anyone would think otherwise.

My 10 would be:-

1.Waqar Younis
2.Richard Hadlee
3.Malcom Marshall
4.Fred Trueman
5.Glen Mcgrath
6.Imran Khan
7.Dennis Lillee
8.Joel Garner
9.Wasim Akram
10.Alan Donald

Curtly Ambrose is 11th.

Must mention this is of the 1930 and afterwards period, I believe any comparison in bowling from before that period and after is pointless.

 

[Xuhaib]

having seen Waqar's peak I would always have him in my top 10 but since for atleast half of his career he was just fairly good so would find it hard to put him in the top 5.

 

[Slifer]

Personally my top 12 would have been Hadlee, Marshall, Barnes, McGrath, Lohmann, Imran, Ambrose, Garner, Lillee, Akram, Davidson, Trueman.

Some choices are pretty clear to me, for example Hadlee over McGrath or Imran over Akram...while some others aren't that clear (the order among Hadlee, Marshall and Barnes; the choice between Ambrose and Garner; the choice between Akram and Davidson; and also the exact rank of Lohmann among the other 11 greats). But these 12 are 'almost' surely my top 12 fast bowlers of all-time.

Though I won't keep Waqar in my top 12, I must admit that I believe he had the potential to be better than all of them...

My top 10 would be:

Marshall
Mcgrath
Hadlee
Imran
Ambrose
Lillee
Donald
Garner
Trueman
Wasim

For me the embolded players are practically interchangeable. Marshall at the top needs no explanation (Av < 25 home/away vs everyone, Sr<50, WPM 4.64 (was ~5.0 for alot of his career despite competition for wickets) , av<21 etc etc etc. Oh and if he really wanted to could have probably killed ne batsman he felt like.

 

[stephen]

This poll has now closed.

Hadlee and Ambrose Progress

Hadlee 21 def Lillee 11

Ambrose 23 def Imran 9

Quarter final 3

Waqar Younis vs Glenn McGrath

Waqar Younis
Waqar is considered by many to be the most destructive bowler ever to have played the game.
Malcolm Marshall | West Indies Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Glenn McGrath
"Pigeon" is the highest wicket taking test match fast bowler of all time. And he did it during the highest scoring era of world cricket.
Glenn McGrath | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Quarter final 4

Wasim Akram vs Malcolm Marshall

Wasim Akram
Wasim was probably the greatest left arm quick ever.
Wasim Akram | Pakistan Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Malcolm Marshall
Malcolm Marshall could do anything with the ball. But the thing he did most often was take wickets.
Malcolm Marshall | West Indies Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Votes will close Wednesday evening.

 

[G.I.Joe]

McGrath and Marshall.

 

[Fusion]

McGrath and Marshall, with due apologies to the two W's.

 

[Teja.]

I rate bowlers on ten year stretches and IMO no bowler has had a better decade statistically or visually then Waqar Younis in the 90s. I have never seen a bowler bowl with the kind of aura surrounding Waqar. He never was afraid to bowl full to the stumps, When he bowled, runs went at 3.5 po, wickets still fell at an awesome rate, drives were attempted, stumps were broken. Waqar was what for me Cricket is all about. In his four year peak he could make the bowl swing either way,(Better than anyone else, ever) York the bowl both straight or banana-swinging(Only delivery in cricket impossible to face IMO), use insanely effective use of the short ball and eliminate the pitch from the equation entirely.For the next six years, he was still a world class bowler, though nowhere close to the old Waqar(but then, who in the history of fast bowling was?). When Waqar took the ball, ****t was always about to go down.

Marshall could do everything with the ball anywhere in the world, To stand out among the Holdings, Garners and Roberts among his team is really extraordinary. In the 83/84 series between India and WI in India, Gavaskar said Marshall was so quick, Facing Holding after him was like facing a medium pacer. Mind you, Holding was bowling bloody well that series(thirty wickets at less than twenty if I remember well)

 

[BoyBrumby]

Waqar and Marshall.

Don't care McGrath could send down 150 balls short of a length that would clip the top of off in succession, tbh. Waqar's inswinging yorker aimed at the very foot of the middle pole was brutal poetry.

 

[jondavluc]

McGrath and Marshall

 

[Magrat Garlick]

McGrath, Wasim

 

[Himannv]

Glenn McGrath
Malcolm Marshall

 

[Pothas]

McGrath and Marshall.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Waqar and Marshall.

Don't care McGrath could send down 150 balls short of a length that would clip the top of off in succession, tbh. Waqar's inswinging yorker aimed at the very foot of the middle pole was brutal poetry.

This. Waqar at his peak was unstoppable. The late swing, the pace, the fire. And Marshall of course.

 

[The Sean]

Having to vote with my head rather than my heart in both cases. I absolutely loved watching Waqar at his unstoppable peak, but McGrath's performances year after year in an era of prodigious scoring were nothing short of phenomenal.

The second is even harder. Wasim Akram is probably my all-time favourite bowler, but I'm firmly of the belief that Malcolm Marshall is the greatest fast bowler ever to play the game.

 

[Burgey]

McGrath and Marshall, with due apologies to the two W's.

This. Must say it was a real shame we never really saw the best of Waqar here. Kind of wouldn't matter so much nowadays as there's coverage of most everything, but I'd have liked to have seen him in full flight (though not from 22 yards away, it should be said).

 

[Matt79]

McGrath and Marshall.

This

 

[Days of Grace]

Waqar and Marshall (could very well be the final between these two).

I would pick McGrath most days, but I've been persuaded by the posts above on Waqar and by the fact that this is indeed a poll on FAST bowlers, which to me is about speed, swing, the ability to break the stumps, knock the batsmen's head off and be a bloody good entertainer. If it was just about bowler's, McGrath would probably win my vote.