***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[marc71178]

"Terrible" is ott imo...we did beat England in the caribbean the last time they toured here, Pakistan still haven't won in the caribbean and neither have SL. Plus we haven't been done 5-0 for a long time in a test series unlike some other sides so there has been some flickers of light in the dark cloud above us.

How is 5 wins in 81 matches anything other than terrible?

 

[ohnoitsyou]

"Terrible" is ott imo...we did beat England in the caribbean the last time they toured here, Pakistan still haven't won in the caribbean and neither have SL. Plus we haven't been done 5-0 for a long time in a test series unlike some other sides so there has been some flickers of light in the dark cloud above us.

So pray tell me, how many 5 match test series have the WI played over the last 10 years?

 

[WindieWeathers]

How is 5 wins in 81 matches anything other than terrible?

It's subjective i guess...one of those wins lead to a series win. We've also made it up to 5th in the rankings very recently so like i said it's not all been bad.

Right now i think we've got tons of potential coming through..so in the next few years we'll hopefully improve even more.

 

[WindieWeathers]

So pray tell me, how many 5 match test series have the WI played over the last 10 years?

One...and we won it against England.

In truth though we've played a lot of 3 and 4 matche series in that period aswell and only ever been whitewashed twice in that time once in England and once in Australia way back in 2004 and 2005 respectively.

 

[marc71178]

It's subjective i guess...one of those wins lead to a series win. We've also made it up to 5th in the rankings very recently so like i said it's not all been bad.

Right now i think we've got tons of potential coming through..so in the next few years we'll hopefully improve even more.

For at least half of that time (since around December 2008) there's apparently been tons of potential coming through.

 

[WindieWeathers]

For at least half of that time (since around December 2008) there's apparently been tons of potential coming through.

Well to be fair since 2008 the likes of Roach, Darren Bravo, Powell and Narine have come through...but the difference between our talent in the past and the talent now is the talent now will be devloping their games in a better first class system which will be starting this November.

 

[marc71178]

Well to be fair, the number of players you've bigged up, at least some of them will come through, although if those 4 are the best that have happened then it's not a very good endorsement of your personal predictions.

 

[Beamer]

Jerome Taylor.

Career average - 35.6
Hasn't played a test match for 4 and a half years.

Can anyone explain to me why he's going to make such a difference?

Tbh I think Kemar Roach coming back is much more significant as he's World Class.

As for JT, those figures don't do his talent justice, he bowled one of the best spells in test history at Sabina Park to rout England for 51, has an action that is as smooth as silk and can both swing and seam the balls both ways. He is just very very injury prone and so never had an extended fully-fit run in the side. He has played our entire domestic season without injury and appears to be pretty much the same bowler, with maybe a tiny bit less pace but there's not much in it.

I'm certainly looking forward to having him back and if he doesn't cut it we have a number of promising pacers in the wings so it's no biggie. Roach and Taylor will be an enormous upgrade on Gabriel and Best, who could not have bowled worse in New Zealand that's for sure.

 

[Beamer]

Well to be fair, the number of players you've bigged up, at least some of them will come through, although if those 4 are the best that have happened then it's not a very good endorsement of your personal predictions.

Tbf Darren Bravo averages 44 in Test cricket and is pretty special. Roach was one of the World's best fast bowlers until he got a serious injury. I'm pretty sure Narine will be a Test class spinner if he gets to play consistently. Powell I'm not convinced about so no comment.

I happen to think we are seeing some significant light at the end of the tunnel at the moment after years of pain. However, the only prediction I'm willing to make of the current youngsters is that Jermaine Blackwood will be the next great West Indian batsman. The guy is just immense and I'm looking forward to the day when you guys all get to see him in action too.

 

[Flem274*]

anyone who could pitch it up and present a half decent seam at respectable pace would have seen the west indies bowl a lot better than they did in nz. they often had the best pace bowling conditions but their seam position (Gabriel), length (Best) and pace (Sammy) wasn't good enough. They did okay against two poor opening batsmen but once real batsmen came in and made it through to the older ball bowlers not called Narine or Shillingford were easy pickings.

Kemar Roach was world class when he was a test regular and the steadily improving Jerome Taylor was doing a Southee on his poor career figures. Darren Bravo is the real deal.

But.

The two incoming quicks haven't bowled in a test for a long time and Chanderpaul, Gayle and Samuels must be very close to retirement. With the WICB ability to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to picking spin bowlers I can see the post Chanderpaul era being very painful for the West Indies if Roach and Taylor can't regain what they had, because it takes time to get young bowlers up to speed regardless of how good they might become. Darren Bravo can't do it all on his own and both Powell and Brathwaite look poor. I'm a fan of Kirk Edwards but any team with him as their second best batsman has dubious batting strength.

Even without Narine the West Indies should still win this series but a series victory in isolation means nothing. What matters is what happens when Chanderpaul calls time, which will be very soon.

 

[WindieWeathers]

anyone who could pitch it up and present a half decent seam at respectable pace would have seen the west indies bowl a lot better than they did in nz. they often had the best pace bowling conditions but their seam position (Gabriel), length (Best) and pace (Sammy) wasn't good enough. They did okay against two poor opening batsmen but once real batsmen came in and made it through to the older ball bowlers not called Narine or Shillingford were easy pickings.

Kemar Roach was world class when he was a test regular and the steadily improving Jerome Taylor was doing a Southee on his poor career figures. Darren Bravo is the real deal.

But.

The two incoming quicks haven't bowled in a test for a long time and Chanderpaul, Gayle and Samuels must be very close to retirement. With the WICB ability to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to picking spin bowlers I can see the post Chanderpaul era being very painful for the West Indies if Roach and Taylor can't regain what they had, because it takes time to get young bowlers up to speed regardless of how good they might become. Darren Bravo can't do it all on his own and both Powell and Brathwaite look poor. I'm a fan of Kirk Edwards but any team with him as their second best batsman has dubious batting strength.

Even without Narine the West Indies should still win this series but a series victory in isolation means nothing. What matters is what happens when Chanderpaul calls time, which will be very soon.

I respect your opinion Flem but i think you've been quite harsh on Powell and especially Brathwaite. Powell to me is a lad who has all the talent in the world...and he's shown it with the three tons he's got thus far, but it's just a matter of him finally showing some consistency to go along with the talent now. Cause like i've said before shot for shot i believe he's more talented than Bravo but mentally he's way behind...this year should be a big one for him. If he gets another ton against NZ then it could be the start of good things to come.

Now let me speak about Kraigg...lets remember he got four test 50s all while still being 18 years old...which was better than what Sobers got at a similar age if i'm not mistaken. Since then he was dropped but has worked very hard on his game and now is amoungst the most consistent batsmen in the caribbean..i already started a thread highlight his scores at domestic and A-team level over the last two years and it's quite stunning..(averaging about 54) so when you consider he's only 21 what is he gonna be like when he's 24? for me he can be another Shiv...i have no doubts in my mind about that.

As for Roach...he's been out for six months which has only seen him miss the last two series...it happens but speaking to a few people who saw him bowl for his club side the other day they say he looks like his normal self...very quick and skiddy, though admittedly his lines needed to be fine tuned which i'm sure he has with Ambrose and co in the nets...at 25 it would be foolhardy to say he can't get back to his best imo.

All in all i suspect Gayle and Chanders to be gone within a year or so...while Samuels is only 33 so he could have two or so years still left in him...but in truth i don't fear the senior guys departures because players like Blackwood look very special tbh and he's gonna need to play test cricket soon enough anyway.

Taylor for me is 50-50..he's enjoying a real good purple patch now interms of his fitness and long may that continue..but he'll need the wickets to stay in the side because in Cummins, Cotterrell and especially Holder (who i believe can be a major star) he's got guys breathing down his neck... it's just great for our cricket that we have so much competition for places.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Jason Holder has been added to the squad for the first test HERE ...i wonder if we might go with three pacers afterall? or does one of them (Taylor or Roach most likely) have a niggle? i'll try and dig around to so what the issue is, hell maybe they were just very impressed with Holder during the warm up games.

 

[Beamer]

The two incoming quicks haven't bowled in a test for a long time and Chanderpaul, Gayle and Samuels must be very close to retirement. With the WICB ability to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to picking spin bowlers I can see the post Chanderpaul era being very painful for the West Indies if Roach and Taylor can't regain what they had, because it takes time to get young bowlers up to speed regardless of how good they might become. Darren Bravo can't do it all on his own and both Powell and Brathwaite look poor. I'm a fan of Kirk Edwards but any team with him as their second best batsman has dubious batting strength.

Even without Narine the West Indies should still win this series but a series victory in isolation means nothing. What matters is what happens when Chanderpaul calls time, which will be very soon.

I agree and it is why we need two things to happen:

1) We desperately need one of Kraigg Braithwaite, Kieron Powell, Leon Johnson, Jonathan Carter or even Adrian Barath to kick on. That was a very promising group of batsmen, none of whom have really delivered yet. I think Kraigg is on the cusp and scoring a shed-load of runs at FC and A-team level. But Powell is too inconsistent for me and Barath, although incredibly talented, has completely lost the plot. Johnson is very consistent at FC level but doesn;t score enough hundreds and Carter is exceptionally talented but inconsistent.

2) We have some very talented young batsmen coming through who have made their debuts in this years FC tournament. We really need them to make it at the top level and soon. The big two are Jermaine Blackwood, who is absolutely exceptional and a joy to watch, and Sunil Ambris, who is further away from selection but had an excellent first year and looks like he could be very good.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I think next year Elvin Lewis could be another Blackwood...the signs were there towards the end of last season and next season i expect him to step up even more. Akeal Hosein was also very impressive in his debut season...a real alround talent there.

 

[Kippax]

Sunil Ambris, who is further away from selection but had an excellent first year and looks like he could be very good.

Thought Pooran might tighten up his defence and temperament to get into Test contention faster than Ambris.

 

[Beamer]

Thought Pooran might tighten up his defence and temperament to get into Test contention faster than Ambris.

Ambris is two years ahead of Pooran who is still only 18. Plus Pooran has the problem of having to get past Ramdin to play in the T & T FC team. Hopefully he gets some opportunities when Ramdin is on West Indies duty.

 

[Kippax]

Yeah, a Northern Districts type of region would take Pooran, under this Pybus draft system being proposed to make team-hopping less rare.

 

[Howsie]

Yeah, a Northern Districts type of region would take Pooran, under this Pybus draft system being proposed to make team-hopping less rare.

The kid would probably be playing test cricket in a short while if that were the case.

 

[Kippax]

The kid would probably be playing test cricket in a short while if that were the case.

Yeah well Pooran's an aggressive left-hander currently known for halting a collapse, not starting one. After the successful sale of Devcich and Sodhi to the cricketing public, a laxative salesman like Bradburn wouldn't even find it hard work to expedite Pooran's passage.

 

[Dan]

Bradburn's gone though.