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Tendulkar as a World Cup player (posts moved here)

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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
This is what you said :-

"It's the fact that now India are #1 there is a whole different pressure to face which is something Sachin has never had to deal with."

It is so hard for some folks to not own up to what they said 5 minutes ago.
It's tedious to talk to you because you can be so lost at times. Read the bolded/sized up part a few times. What I am saying is that India are now factually #1. Of course the rest is coming from me, so it is my opinion. Sachin hadn't been in the #1 team and therefore is facing different pressure.

Yeah, like Sachin losing his captaincy post the disastrous tour of Australia albeit being man of series and having to captain the worst team ever post perhaps Independence.

Or Ponting still being captain despite failing to retain ashes twice in a row, losing comprehensively to india, and suffering a home series loss in ages.
The captaincy in India changes hands so regularly that it's incomparable to what Ponting has to go through. IIRC Australia have never changed a captain while he was playing.

Ikki I really don't think the pressure argument applies to Tendulkar, the guy has been under the whole weight of India for such a very long time now. Its one of the reasons I consider him such a huge success, being able to cope with the tide of a whole gigantic nations thoughts and feelings.
I don't buy that whole pressure re the masses thing to near the same extent as others. Everybody has pressure to perform for their fans. And while I am sure he has his detractors, I am sure Tendulkar has 10x as many fanboys.
 
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bagapath

International Captain
Not really. It's more like he'd be seen in an even better light if he did win it. I can only speak for myself, but I have him 3rd after Bevan and Viv in ODIs as a batsman. If he were to win the WC I'd have him as #1.
well, nothing wrong with that ranking at the moment, even if mine is different.


We've not lost a WC game for over a decade.
australia is the greatest WC team, no doubt. but that doesnt prove they dont care about anything else. and the 01 series speech by waugh was not a pre-series hype. it was post series. and he was relieved.

the 08 series down under was no small affair let me reiterate. sachin leading india to victory in the finals was a triumphant moment in his career without doubt. and ponting would have loved to win that trophy.

edit: fixed the year
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Because beating India away was never a barrier to us becoming #1. Do you think there was a national holiday because we finally did it?
Shifting the Goal post again ? Here is what you said (You talked about a match not being no. 1 or two) :-

"the difference between Ponting and Sachin is that is Sachin scores runs; regardless of how the team does, he is ok. If Ponting scores runs and loses a match; people want his head. "


In any case you are wrong, there was no national holiday. Secondly unlike Australia, India has had very few sporting success and then we have our way of celebrating stuff. We did so after 1983 WC, T20 WC, Victory in Triangular series in Australia. Infact we do it after every major sporting achievement, I sill remember the celebration we had in 1998 when India won the Hockey Gold medal in Asian games after 20 years.

For you to come and question our way of celebrating our victory basically tells us about your ignorance of the culture itself. I would recommend you to visit India and participate in an Indian wedding, you will see it is completely different from an Aussie wedding, we just celebrate things differently.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Um, no, what are you talking about?

I said apart from the WC, in ODIs, Aussies don't really care about any other series.

In tests, when you faced us last, we had an exodus of players, and were #1 in name only. It may have been our best team at the time, but it clearly wasn't a great one.

The rest of your post is garbage, per usual.
Yeah we get it. Australia are permitted to retain their no.1 status till the next warne and mcgrath are born and play for them and other teams manage to beat them then.

Waitaminute, india did that in 01 dim't they?

Na, i'm a dimwit, warne was not at his peak then, and of course india weren't contenders to no.1, so it matters little.

Right, ikki?
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
well, nothing wrong with that ranking at the moment, even if mine is different.




australia is the greatest WC team, no doubt. but that doesnt prove they dont care about anything else. and the 01 series speech by waugh was not a pre-series hype. it was post series. and he was relieved.

the 08 series down under was no small affair let me reiterate. sachin leading india to victory in the finals was a triumphant moment in his career without doubt. and ponting would have loved to win that trophy.

edit: fixed the year
I think that Australia definitely cares about it from an on-field perspective; the players would hate every loss. From a coaching and planning point of view, I'm not sure that they are that perturbed by losses between World Cups, and Champions Trophies.

The last 7 game series in India was a good example, where there was surprise more than anything about the victory expressed out of Cricket Australia, because they weren't perturbed about the idea of a lost series, and had "budgeted" for it as such.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
I
I don't buy that whole pressure re the masses thing to near the same extent as others. Everybody has pressure to perform for their fans. And while I am sure he has his detractors, I am sure Tendulkar has 10x as many fanboys.
Na really believe its a huge huge factor in India.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
Sooooo...I like watermelons. Just wanted ya'll to know that. Personally, I think they beat mangoes.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
I know this is not a very conclusive sample size but Sachin averages 88 in the five tests he played in the no.1 team.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
It's tedious to talk to you because you can be so lost at times. Read the bolded/sized up part a few times. What I am saying is that India are now factually #1. Of course the rest is coming from me, so it is my opinion. Sachin hadn't been in the #1 team and therefore is facing different pressure..
"It's the fact that now India are #1 there is a whole different pressure to face which is something Sachin has never had to deal with."

Just because you put it in bold doesn't mean that it came that way. There was no comma, it seemed the whose statement was some sort of fact, when it clearly isn't.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
I sort of agree with Ikki, in a way. I'm really looking forward to seeing Sachin bat, having been part of a side that has "conquered the mountain"; being part of the hunted rather than the hunters. Have this vision of him with a stick on the top of a hill, poking at the competitors trying to get back up there, keeping them down. "It took me this long, and I ain't letting go now!"
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Which is why Australia have won it 3 times in a row? There are only 2 knock-out stages in the WC, the semis and the final. That really shouldn't be an issue.

I also don't think Australians really care about losing ODI series. They use them plenty to test new players. You want to beat Australia at her best, you do it at the WC.



I'm just giving my opinion. I don't think he has much of an excuse for not winning a WC. He clearly had a side that could have done it on numerous occasions. No one I know is going to remember 07 triangular series and I am sure Sachin himself would swap his MOTS award for a World cup winners medal.

Really?

Do u know the bowlers Indian team had.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
The captaincy in India changes hands so regularly that it's incomparable to what Ponting has to go through. IIRC Australia have never changed a captain while he was playing.
Please stick to one thing at a time please.

You say Ponting had to face more pressure than Sachin. And then say Ponting's captaincy was never in danger. So exactly how do you define pressure? And lol at your contention about captaincy in india.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Really? Has that been used before or after, or was it just for the 2003 tournament?

Personally don't agree with such a system. Not that I believe that Sachin didn't deserve it.


Yeah.. but that was in use there. In fact, before the finals even started, everyone knew Sachin was MoS..


BTW, a big BIG 8-) @ this whole thread and the blokes arguing that Sachin has done nothing at WCs. How this number of people clutch on to that single feeble straw, I will never know.. :p
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Again, your reading comprehension is taking you adrift.

Shifting the Goal post again ? Here is what you said (You talked about a match not being no. 1 or two) :-

"the difference between Ponting and Sachin is that is Sachin scores runs; regardless of how the team does, he is ok. If Ponting scores runs and loses a match; people want his head. "
How have I shifted the goal posts? I did generalise, but I did not shift the posts. It's true; if Australia don't win, people look to Ponting. It doesn't matter that we lost to India for a decade because India had hardly been our main rivals. If we had lost our #1 position to India because of those losses, with the team that we had then, it'd be a completely different ball-game.

In any case you are wrong, there was no national holiday. Secondly unlike Australia, India has had very few sporting success and then we have our way of celebrating stuff. We did so after 1983 WC, T20 WC, Victory in Triangular series in Australia. Infact we do it after every major sporting achievement, I sill remember the celebration we had in 1998 when India won the Hockey Gold medal in Asian games after 20 years.

For you to come and question our way of celebrating our victory basically tells us about your ignorance of the culture itself. I would recommend you to visit India and participate in an Indian wedding, you will see it is completely different from an Aussie wedding, we just celebrate things differently.
Erm, I wasn't talking about India, I was talking about Australia. I said when we won, WE didn't have a national holiday about it showing that there wasn't this grand interest in finally beating India as you seem to think there has been by your questioning of the pressure of when we lost. Obviously, if they don't make a huge ruckus about it when we lose, they're not going to start a parade just because we won. The only series that could be as important as a clash for #1 for Australians are the Ashes; and that's merely because of the tradition and history surrounding it.

Just because you put it in bold doesn't mean that it came that way. There was no comma, it seemed the whose statement was some sort of fact, when it clearly isn't.
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Next time do the decent thing and ask instead of going on a tirade. I even clarified what I meant and you still insisted I meant something else. If I had meant it, I'd say I meant it.

Yeah we get it. Australia are permitted to retain their no.1 status till the next warne and mcgrath are born and play for them and other teams manage to beat them then.

Waitaminute, india did that in 01 dim't they?

Na, i'm a dimwit, warne was not at his peak then, and of course india weren't contenders to no.1, so it matters little.

Right, ikki?
Well, you said it this time ;).

I am not saying it mattered little when India beat us at other times. I said there is a whole different pressure being #1 and beating us when we are coming to take that from you. You can't point to 01 as being comparable because, guess what, you weren't #1 or contenders.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Look who is talking, the combined Greatness of Gilchrist and Ponting could not save them against the same powerhouse of Bangladesh when they both combined to score a massive total of 1, 8 less than the greatest batsman since Sir Don Bradman AKA Md. Rafiq and the might Mcgrath could not buy a single wicket in 10 overs.

.


That's the circular logic though, If he didn't score against BD and India lost we see a post full of sarcasm and if he did score same response.



Yeah India has 40% of its population below poverty line because of Tendulkar, half of its populace is illiterate because of him, India is so pathetic in Olympics, tendulkar failed there also. Look at Indian HOckey..in shambles..again because of Tendulkar. Bloody hell this guy I tell you is pretty useless. All he has done is make 30000+ International runs.



Yeah since he score 91 and 117* those finals can not be important, we should just cherry pick only those finals where SRT did not play well, we should also ignore an entire decade before 2000 where SRT helped India win many finals, we will also continue to count the failure of Team India as failure of Tendulkar despite him playing well.

This * 2.

This thread is designed to somehow twist logic and show that no one can be better than the aussie players.
There are some people on here that will never agree with logic,even if the debate was between Kapil Dev and Ian Harvey.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
Yeah.. but that was in use there. In fact, before the finals even started, everyone knew Sachin was MoS..


BTW, a big BIG 8-) @ this whole thread and the blokes arguing that Sachin has done nothing at WCs. How this number of people clutch on to that single feeble straw, I will never know.. :p
The straw is non-existent too, since he(along with viv) has the best record in WCs.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Don't see how a bout between world no.1 and no.3 (or is it 4) can be a championship bout. :unsure:

For your info, Last time we defended our world no. 1 title succesfully against south africa, the no.2, Sachin had hit back to back centuries.
Owned using his own logic.:laugh:
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I sort of agree with Ikki, in a way. I'm really looking forward to seeing Sachin bat, having been part of a side that has "conquered the mountain"; being part of the hunted rather than the hunters. Have this vision of him with a stick on the top of a hill, poking at the competitors trying to get back up there, keeping them down. "It took me this long, and I ain't letting go now!"
AWTA.. As a matter of fact, his own role in the team has changed so much in tests since that watershed 2001 series...
 
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