Who Is The Better Captain? Smith or Ponting?

[Ikki]

Apologies. I wasn't calling you childish even if it came out that way. I just have a dislike for that kind of talk - maybe a personal thing.

i.e. his father was taxi driver, he was doomed; or his father was a doctor, he had it easy. It seems to make an excuse for one and take credit away from another. In my experience it is just never as simple as that so I dislike the generalisations immensely.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

i.e. his father was taxi driver, he was doomed; or his father was a doctor, he had it easy. It seems to make an excuse for one and take credit away from another. In my experience it is just never as simple as that so I dislike the generalisations immensely.

That's not actually what I was saying. I'll simplify a bit. If the team you join has a history of failure in certain circumstances, your awareness of that failure increases the pressure to succeed. If you enter a team that has already jumped that hurdle, or knocked that monkey off its back, there's a confidence that comes with it.

No one is doomed, and no one has it easy. It's just that some people are more confident of success than others, based on precedent and past achievement. And that it's a team sport generally means that there's always some experienced link between different generations of a team. So such insecurities and confidence are easier impressed on new players too.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Multiple WCs

Multiple CTs

Multiple everything else

There is no comparison

IMO, Smith is lucky to still have a job (as is Ponting, but that's as a result of a slipping in standards rather than failure to achieve)

Smith should definitley get the punt if they lose this test vs India as it would simply be the latest example of him leading a far more talented team to defeat

You can't just use success in terms of matches and series won when assessing a captain's worth; of course Ponting's won a lot but with the team(s) he's had he bloody well should've done. With the cattle he's had he's arguably done no better or worse than anyone else would've. If you look at games won and lost a bloke like Davey Houghton would be one of the worst ever, but I'd say he's a better captain than Ponting without hesitation.

&, beside the main point of the thread as it may be, I wouldn't say SA are "far more talented" than India either; they might just edge it (better bowling attack, worse batting line up) but it's a toss a coin shout for me.

 

[Matt79]

Ponting, but it's quite close. Both got their strengths and a couple of weaknesses. Ponting's are known and significantly exaggerated IMO, particularly in recent years. apart from anything else Smith has at times picked unwise fights via the media etc and created unhelpful distractions for his team.

Smith does have a few extra challenges to deal with, in terms
of tensions re quotas, mental fragility of his team etc.

 

[Uppercut]

Ponting, but it's quite close. Both got their strengths and a couple of weaknesses. Ponting's are known and significantly exaggerated IMO, particularly in recent years. apart from anything else Smith has at times picked unwise fights via the media etc and created unhelpful distractions for his team.

Smith does have a few extra challenges to deal with, in terms
of tensions re quotas, mental fragility of his team etc.

Personally I would downplay the significance of that. Well, I'd downplay the effect it has on the team anyway. I don't think your captain mouthing off to the newspaper the day before is anywhere near your mind when you stroll out to face international fast bowlers.

Regardless, he doesn't really do it anymore. Visibly much more laid-back and down-to-earth for a while now.

Is the question asking about tests or ODIs? I think Ponting's a much better ODI captain than test captain.

 

[L Trumper]

I see your Ashes defeats and raise you South Africa failing to beat us over Xmas

 

[Streetwise]

Everytime Australia have a good series win the first thing that comes up is Ponting is not a good captian like (insert name here). Like some of the other sillier comments here like wait until the Australian bowlers face SA, hello they beat them in SA not so long ago.

How can Smith be a good captain, he collapsed and fell in a big hole against australia, take Styen away and Smith is just barely ordinary.

 

[L Trumper]

Is the question asking about tests or ODIs? I think Ponting's a much better ODI captain than test captain.

That is for sure.

In tests both are leader of men rather than tactically acute. Smith did brilliantly when no one knows what to expect while ponting did what was expected of him as a thoroughly groomed captain. Who is better will be a personal choice. Although smith never made one or two high profile obvious blunders as ponting did. But the way ponting rebuilding his team is really impressive. We should probably rate them after their reigns ended. I myself rate smith by a little but as right now ponting seems better.

By the way lot of SA field placements etc come from boucher. Does smith also got that much hunch for field placements?

 

[Pup Clarke]

Let's take Steyn and Johnson out of the picture, as the best fast bowler for each respective side.

Ummm...

 

[Streetwise]

My point being that it can't be an easy thing to change. And it's not something that Ponting has been faced with, so it shouldn't be used as something to lord over Smith.

But we do know that Ponting as captain has the ability to maintain this high level of professionalism and consistantcy in the team. This is the fundamental role of the captain so why should this fact be let out of discussion just because Smith cannot demonstrate any ability in this area. He did have the opportunity when captaining the world eleven when he had a team but got hammered by Ponting.

 

[Uppercut]

By the way lot of SA field placements etc come from boucher. Does smith also got that much hunch for field placements?

A history lecturer once told me, in reference to Gustav Stresemann, that the key to being a great leader is employing people to do well what you can't do well yourself. Bearing that in mind, I'm not willing to discredit Smith's captaincy on those grounds .

 

[vic_orthdox]

That's not actually what I was saying. I'll simplify a bit. If the team you join has a history of failure in certain circumstances, your awareness of that failure increases the pressure to succeed. If you enter a team that has already jumped that hurdle, or knocked that monkey off its back, there's a confidence that comes with it.

No one is doomed, and no one has it easy. It's just that some people are more confident of success than others, based on precedent and past achievement. And that it's a team sport generally means that there's always some experienced link between different generations of a team. So such insecurities and confidence are easier impressed on new players too.

I agree with the notion that Liam has raised.

When players enter an environment/culture where winning is a habit, it becomes contagious. You see it at every level of competitive sport.

 

[Ikki]

See, still disagree. That's the point I raised. Australia have had a lot of changes and new players over the last few years. Several players at a time have been blooded, it just isn't the same winning team to begin with. Even the players that stayed were either injured (Clark, Lee, etc) or horribly out of form (Ponting, Hussey, MacGill, etc). Also this team has gone downhill and then back up again. They've started to forge themselves in their own fire rather than someone else's.

 

[Faisal1985]

Ponting IMO...................

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Smith, no question. He helped make what is still an average test team into the world's best, beating Australia away.

Ponting is a great player a poor captain by anyone's standards.

Ashes 05 and 09 losses can in some part be attriibuted to shocking decisions he has made or played a part in. And we must consider that he lost the 05 Ashes with one of the greatest test teams ever. For such an attacking batsman I was amazed at his negative field settings and choices made.

 

[silentstriker]

Ponting the first captain to lose two Ashes in England in a long time....?

I'd say Ponting but that over rate bowling part time fiasco makes me want to change my mind really really bad.

 

[Faisal1985]

Ponting the first captain to lose two Ashes in England in a long time....?

I'd say Ponting but that over rate bowling part time fiasco makes me want to change my mind really really bad.

Smith doesn't have an Ashes to win.....If Ponting is being measured with an Ashes scale...what merit do you use for Smith?

The reason i don't give it to Smith is because he has no doubt made this SA team a world beater but still has not been able to turn it on on the big stages.....whether its the choker thing or whatever but the fact is that until Smith shows that he has the ability to deliver on the big stage its hard to give him the top rank....Ponting on the other hand knows how instill confidence in his side no matter how close the game, no matter how much the pressure...and basically bring them up when they are down....Yes they lost the Ashes but both times it was quite a close contest....and that to me does not take away a lot from Ponting.

Put it this way, if Smith XI and Punter XI are in a close game and it goes down to the wire....Punter XI has more chances to win it then Smith XI...this is where captaincy is mighty important....

 

[silentstriker]

He captained only team last decade to win in Australia...

Ponting had a superior team both in 2005 and 2009 in the Ashes...and lost both.

You could argue that re: 2005, but not this time around.

 

[Faisal1985]

But why such miserable performances in World Cups or Champions Trophy or what not...I mean NZ made it to the CT finals for God's Sake...

Lets not make Ashes and Test the only merit out their...

 

[Uppercut]

Those are ODI competitions and hence no one cares about Smith's captaincy in those.

Besides, Ponting has several very specific instances of crap captaincy costing his side that you can point to. South Africa's failures in the World Cup and Champions Trophies may or may not have been partly down to Smith, but if his captaincy was bad at least it wasn't so god damn obviously bad.