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What do Australians hate about Ganguly

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
He does occasionally come across as someone who thinks his **** smells a little sweeter than the rest of ours, but I think this is at least partly due to his (what I understand to be) privileged upbringing and a slight shyness, which is easily mistaken for arrogance.
Although I respect your opinion, I personally feel that it is a bit harsh. I have followed Ganguly's career quite closely and have watched his interviews on and off the field on many occasions and I dont think in any of those interviews he came across as the guy you describe. To me he has always come across as an honest individual who is not afraid to speak his mind or payback in kind esp when he was the captain.

He may have had an affluent upbringing but as a cricketer he had to struggle as much as anyone to get his chance.
 

Burgey

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As another Australis Vs India series approaches and another thread has shown us down here in Aus Ganguly is not very popular.

I thought it would be interesting to see why people thought Australians did not like him or from my fellow Australians why they don’t like him.

I know he rubbed a few people up the wrong way last tour but he is not paid to make the opposition happy but to make his own team competitive. For this he lead a competitive side out here and became unpopular and I for one am not entirely sure why he is so hated in Aus.
I think it started from an earlier tour where he was a fringe player and he walked around like his proverbial was non-odorous.

Then I think he was perceived when he next came back as someone whose record didn't match his attitude (not saying that was so, but I think that was what people thought).

Lastly, his not being ready for the toss really annoyed Steve Waugh, which means it pretty much annoyed a lot of Aussie supporters too.
 

Burgey

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Aussie players have the same reputation everywhere else. :)
Which is why so many of the Aussie cricket team are not well liked in the wider community here.
The reaction when the Australian players have "crossed the line" behaviour wise has been pretty strong here, and unbelieveably, people rang in radio stations after the 05 Ashes saying they thought it was good that we got beat!!
My own view is that the Aussie team getting beaten is not a good thing, especially by England. :)
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Generally, Australian cricketers (not just the national side, but in all levels of cricket) expect to be sledged, but for it to be "discreet" as such. You don't go running around, attracting attention to yourself and how you're being a big tough hero sledging others; you have a sly dig here and there. Sort of seen as a part of "cricket ettiquette" in a way. Sort of like letting the batsmen off the ground first, not running overthrows after the throw hits you, etc.

That's why a lot of Australians didn't have time for Brad Williams, nor for Brett Lee with his "chainsaw" celebrations. Note how the only way you find out about Australians sledging is from interviews from other countries, while you see guys like Sreesanth trying to show off how "in your face" he is.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Note how the only way you find out about Australians sledging is from interviews from other countries, while you see guys like Sreesanth trying to show off how "in your face" he is.
Yeah, nah, no-one ever saw McGrath mouthing-off 3 times an over at batsmen...? :dontgetit
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Yeah, nah, no-one ever saw McGrath mouthing-off 3 times an over at batsmen...? :dontgetit
The only way that you ever knew that he was ever talking was because there was a camera fixed on the bowling. No hysterics (besides one obvious case), choice word here or there, other times just muttering.

Had to laugh when he tried to convince people (I think in some sort of interview or something) that he was just talking to himself the whole time.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Don't really get what you're saying here TBH. Of course the only reason those who weren't at the ground knew McGrath was having a few words was because the camera was on him. :huh: How's that any different to, for instance, S? No-one would know if the cameras weren't on him either.
 

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Don't really get what you're saying here TBH. Of course the only reason those who weren't at the ground knew McGrath was having a few words was because the camera was on him. :huh: How's that any different to, for instance, S? No-one would know if the cameras weren't on him either.
I think what you'll find Jack is getting at here is that McGrath didn't have wild celebrations of wickets or the like. Every bowler is going to say something to a batsman, and McGrath did it a lot, but that is expected. I must admit I was one of the one's who didn't appreciate Lee's chainsaws especially when he gets his 4th wicket and his figures are 4-200.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Australia didn't care for the cricket etiquette of other countries when it crossed lines, whatever name is given to it. So it has no right to tell or expect other countries to behave in manner x or y as it is not in Australia's cricket etiquette.
 
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Bracken

U19 Debutant
It hurts Waugh's credibility big time and I, for one, have stopped taking his comments on Indian cricket seriously.

As far as Match Fixing is concerned, obviously Steve Waugh will know better, having a match fixer in the house definitely helps.
It is almost as damaging to one's credibility as someone equating providing pitch and weather information with match fixing...
 

Bracken

U19 Debutant
Why? One is providing information to bookies, while the other is to help home advantage?
Compare the two sets of accusations.

Asking a curator to prepare a pitch that suits your team is possibly questionable in a sporting sense, but is perfectly legal and far from uncommon. Comparing it to match fixing, an illegal, immoral act that harms the integrity of the game is ridiculous.

In the other case, providing pitch and weather information at prices that should raise suspicions is foolish, naive and poor judgment. Again, comparing it to agreeing to underperform in return for cash (the aforementioned illegal, immoral act) is an almost equally long bow to draw.

Both comparisons are silly, and do no favours for the credibility of their respective authors.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
In the other case, providing pitch and weather information at prices that should raise suspicions is foolish, naive and poor judgment. Again, comparing it to agreeing to underperform in return for cash (the aforementioned illegal, immoral act) is an almost equally long bow to draw.
Mark Waugh named in pretty much all the reports of match fixing investigations.
He had contacts with guys like Prabhakar, Salim Malik etc on ths, both were banned by their respective boards for match fixing.
Waugh introduced players (including his team mate Warne) to Bookies
Waugh was fined by ACB for his links with bookies.
CBI investigation found out that Waugh was paid money by the bookies through Prabhakar


a. "MK (John) has also stated that he was introduced to Mark Waugh by Prabhakar during a six-a-side tournament in Hong Kong. Prabhakar has accepted this fact. MK (John) has further stated that he paid a sum of $20,000 to Mark Waugh to provide 'information' about pitch, weather, team strategy, morale etc whenever Australia played."2

b. "Meanwhile, Manoj Prabhakar had also introduced Mark Waugh to MK (John) during a six-a-side cricket tournament in Hong Kong. MK (John) paid a sum of $20,000 in exchange of (for) information regarding team morale, discussions taking place during team meetings, percentage of chances of winning or losing, etc. regarding the Australian team. Manoj Prabhakar was also paid for arranging this meeting."3

 

archie mac

International Coach
Mark Waugh named in pretty much all the reports of match fixing investigations.
He had contacts with guys like Prabhakar, Salim Malik etc on ths, both were banned by their respective boards for match fixing.
Waugh introduced players (including his team mate Warne) to Bookies
Waugh was fined by ACB for his links with bookies.
CBI investigation found out that Waugh was paid money by the bookies through Prabhakar


a. "MK (John) has also stated that he was introduced to Mark Waugh by Prabhakar during a six-a-side tournament in Hong Kong. Prabhakar has accepted this fact. MK (John) has further stated that he paid a sum of $20,000 to Mark Waugh to provide 'information' about pitch, weather, team strategy, morale etc whenever Australia played."2

b. "Meanwhile, Manoj Prabhakar had also introduced Mark Waugh to MK (John) during a six-a-side cricket tournament in Hong Kong. MK (John) paid a sum of $20,000 in exchange of (for) information regarding team morale, discussions taking place during team meetings, percentage of chances of winning or losing, etc. regarding the Australian team. Manoj Prabhakar was also paid for arranging this meeting."3

Common knowledge8-)

Where does it mention match fixing?

You were telling us Steve Waugh was involved because his brother was??? Glass Houses anyone8-)
 

Burgey

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Australia didn't care for the cricket etiquette of other countries when it crossed lines, whatever name is given to it. So it has no right to tell or expect other countries to behave in manner x or y as it is not in Australia's cricket etiquette.
Are you referring to individual acts of players here, or a systemic approach at team and/ or Board level?
 

Bracken

U19 Debutant
Mark Waugh named in pretty much all the reports of match fixing investigations.
He had contacts with guys like Prabhakar, Salim Malik etc on ths, both were banned by their respective boards for match fixing.
Waugh introduced players (including his team mate Warne) to Bookies
Waugh was fined by ACB for his links with bookies.
CBI investigation found out that Waugh was paid money by the bookies through Prabhakar


a. "MK (John) has also stated that he was introduced to Mark Waugh by Prabhakar during a six-a-side tournament in Hong Kong. Prabhakar has accepted this fact. MK (John) has further stated that he paid a sum of $20,000 to Mark Waugh to provide 'information' about pitch, weather, team strategy, morale etc whenever Australia played."2

b. "Meanwhile, Manoj Prabhakar had also introduced Mark Waugh to MK (John) during a six-a-side cricket tournament in Hong Kong. MK (John) paid a sum of $20,000 in exchange of (for) information regarding team morale, discussions taking place during team meetings, percentage of chances of winning or losing, etc. regarding the Australian team. Manoj Prabhakar was also paid for arranging this meeting."3

He was fined by the ACB for his involvement with A bookie. Singular.

Interesting that you pluralised the sentence "Waugh introduced players (including his team mate Warne) to Bookies". Aside from Warne, who else did he introduce?

Unless you have some information that I am not aware of, his "contact" with Malik was that he was offered US$200,000 to split between the Waughs, May and Warne in return for them throwing a match- an offer that was rejected out of hand, and disclosed to team management at the time. I've looked around, and I can't find any other link between the two.

Mark Waugh was mentioned in five places in the CBI report. One was in Gupte's statement, one was in Prabhakar's, one was in the section of conclusions relating to Prabhakar, one was in the section of conclusions relating to the Australian team, the last being in the list of final conclusions. All of them contained the same single accusation- that being that Prabhakar introduced Waugh to Gupte, and Gupte stated that he paid Waugh US$20,000 in return for information regarding "pitch, weather, team strategy, morale etc". Out of a very long report, there was a total of five sections that mentioned Waugh at all, and all of those were in reference to that single accusation. In response to that accusation, Waugh has maintained that he only provided pitch and weather information, and has compared it to the information that he (and other players) gave during media interviews.

Aside from the rejected offer from Malik, I haven't been able to find a single other credible accusation against Waugh. Certainly nothing that suggests he fixed a match, which concurs with the findings of the O'Regan inquiry.

(That said- Waugh and Warne were both extraordinarily foolish, and the ACB was just as culpable for trying to conceal it. Both were punished, and I agree that their punishment was far too light.)

Interestingly, the CBI report that you quoted listed as "match fixing" BOTH providing information to bookmakers and influencing curators to provide a favourable pitch, among other things. That would seem to support my original point, that the two comparisons are similar- the author of the report would probably suggest that they are similarly valid (or invalid, as the case may be.).
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
FFS, I've seen some silly arguments in my time, and this is one of the sillier (that not being purported by Mr Bracken that is).

BTW Manan, I think you misunderstood what Andy was saying in this post:
Why? One is providing information to bookies, while the other is to help home advantage?
 

Burgey

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The Australian team's approach in general.
Right.

Can't say I agree with you as a general proposition, but I have no problem agreeing that there have been instances of Aussie players behaving badly on the field.
 

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