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***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14
- Thread starter Prince EWS
- Start date
Flem274*
123/5
I don't want to see green seamers. That just evens up the traditional disparity in batting and bowling ability between conditions and teams and makes everything a lottery. What we want is pace and bounce in the pitches. South Africa should give us a good indication as to how the new Indian generation handle such conditions, but for now I'd be preparing bouncy wickets like those we confronted Pakistan with a few years ago. And make sure the damn things don't turn.
And the side that toured here last with that batting and Zaheer peaking would beat the current Indian side in New Zealand conditions.
edit: swing will be crucial as well, as it always is when facing our current attack.
And the side that toured here last with that batting and Zaheer peaking would beat the current Indian side in New Zealand conditions.
edit: swing will be crucial as well, as it always is when facing our current attack.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
To beat India we need a top class 3rd seamer, a spinner that won't release the pressure, and pitches that offer bounce.
Not seam. Bounce,
Vettori is the spinner we need. We've shot ourselves in the foot by not picking any of the seamers that could be good by then - I'm talking Milne, Bennett, hell, even Gillespie or Butler.
Not seam. Bounce,
Vettori is the spinner we need. We've shot ourselves in the foot by not picking any of the seamers that could be good by then - I'm talking Milne, Bennett, hell, even Gillespie or Butler.
Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
James
Cricket Web Owner
That was why I quoted team. I was under the impression from what I've seen that the current Indian team is far more together as a cricketing unit. Yes India were going through a purple match in that period, but the way Kholi, Dhawan, Dhoni, Rohit and others are going currently alongside quality spinners in Ashwin, Jadeja and Ojha would make them more dangerous on the current pitches we're producing. Just my opinion of course, but I would see the Black Caps having more trouble against Ashwin, Jadeja and Ojha than I would them against Zaheer and Harbhajan.
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Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
What gives you that impression?
2008-2010 was the most together any Indian test team has been. They were all united in their cause and that's why they got to number 1. Its easily the best team to ever hit NZ shores.
Considering that team then went on to draw a series in South Africa against Dale Steyn, I daresay that team was best suited to whatever conditions NZ put up, rather than the 2013 team with players who have not played international test matches before.
2008-2010 was the most together any Indian test team has been. They were all united in their cause and that's why they got to number 1. Its easily the best team to ever hit NZ shores.
Considering that team then went on to draw a series in South Africa against Dale Steyn, I daresay that team was best suited to whatever conditions NZ put up, rather than the 2013 team with players who have not played international test matches before.
OverratedSanity
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2007-2010 was the greatest period in indian history.... Virtually everyone in our batting lineup except Dravid was at the absolute peak of their powers, and do was Zaheer. Just a shame everyone went down the drain at the same time too 
Just puts into perspective how amazing the great West Indies and Australian sides were... To maintain a purple patch for over a decade... That's simply phenomenal
I think this new side has the potential to be as good or actually even better because we've actually got a couple of bowlers who like they could do a decent job overseas
Just puts into perspective how amazing the great West Indies and Australian sides were... To maintain a purple patch for over a decade... That's simply phenomenal
I think this new side has the potential to be as good or actually even better because we've actually got a couple of bowlers who like they could do a decent job overseas
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Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
he tested it out for Bay of Plenty in a Hawke Cup match, and New Zealand coach Mike Hesson said he came through with flying colours.
"He got 140-odd yesterday and the day before he left [Dunedin] we had a pretty thorough fielding session. He's got a good splint on there that's protecting the thumb and he's fizzing to go, so assuming that he scrubs up well today after bowling and fielding in Tauranga he'll look to take his place," Hesson said as the teams moved to windswept Wellington to begin preparations.
Jeez how would you like to be that good at cricket. That Hawke cup game was probably meaningless to Kane and he just walks out there and smokes 140 odd. There's a case to be made that really players like him baz and Ross and Tim shouldn't be allowed to play Hawke cup.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I have been working on this post in my mind since this afternoon so we will see if it sounds ok or a load of hogwash.
The news that we are getting Kane back is most welcome (thanks for posting this Kippax - hopefully we will see more of you in this thread you have been missed).
I read in a CS Lewis book that you can never have the same story twice. Things must unfold differently each time. If this is true then we needed another capable batsman in the team as the odds of Rossco and Baz getting a double and a century again are limited. We need someone else to step up and the only other proven test batsman we have is Kane. I am now using the phrase proven test batsman with him. His average may only be a nick under 35 but as far as NZ batsman go that means you're a contributor. Not a great contributor but you have been putting your hand up. (I realise this will tick off Phlegm as he doesn't like using good for NZ standards).
The news that we are getting Kane back is most welcome (thanks for posting this Kippax - hopefully we will see more of you in this thread you have been missed).
I read in a CS Lewis book that you can never have the same story twice. Things must unfold differently each time. If this is true then we needed another capable batsman in the team as the odds of Rossco and Baz getting a double and a century again are limited. We need someone else to step up and the only other proven test batsman we have is Kane. I am now using the phrase proven test batsman with him. His average may only be a nick under 35 but as far as NZ batsman go that means you're a contributor. Not a great contributor but you have been putting your hand up. (I realise this will tick off Phlegm as he doesn't like using good for NZ standards).
ohnoitsyou
International Regular
yeah me to. Looked the real deal in the home ODI series against England, made good scores in troubling conditions for Yorkshire, and scored big in Bangladesh. This summer has got to be his breakout one for me, he's been unfulfilled potential for far to long.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Couple of comments here. Glenn Turner is publicly criticizing his former employer in this interview. And Coney is not far behind. For those who havn't listened to this you really should.
I think Glenn Turner will suffer some repercussions for his comments here - possibly some non invitations to some events he might otherwise have been invited to etc. I don't think that was astute of him. And I have a harsh comment to make about it. I think that sort of criticism is public shows inexperience by him despite the fact that he is an old guy.
There are times to criticize NZC and I agree with Crowe getting fired up to a point over the Ross issue (although the blazer burning was comical) but really criticize in private. Praise in public. He was very damning.
I can't believe what he revealed. Seriously. That post tour reviews are a joke and that if you ask tough questions you don't get invited to the next one. That he disagrees with the coach of the blackcaps picking his own team and having too much power. That Brendon McCullum doesn't want to learn anything and thinks he knows it all.
People who call a spade a spade never survive in complex organisations, not at senior levels anyway. You can get by in an entry level position. I am not surprised he was squeezed out. Still I believe everything he has said. The blackcaps do seem to have an obsession with positive thinking rather than realism. Such as their future success plan that called for being the number 1 team in the world within 5 years even though number 4 or 5 would be more achievable and still an accomplishment. We chose to aim for number 1 as that sounded more positive. And Turners comments that only positive comments were welcome at the post tour review seems to ring true with that positive thinking bias.
OverratedSanity
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Williamson needs to start delivering now... It's seriously been quite a substantial period of time now and he's played enough for people to start expecting consistent scores.
Hopefully NZ are tough with him and put some pressure on him, I think it'll bring out the best in him. Otherwise hell end up being a Kiwi version of Ishant Sharma...
Hopefully NZ are tough with him and put some pressure on him, I think it'll bring out the best in him. Otherwise hell end up being a Kiwi version of Ishant Sharma...
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Williamson is well worth his place as a spin allrounder even if he only averages 30 with the bat. He's never going to be under selection pressure at all, but he doesn't need it. He's a hardworking guy who clearly wants to succeed. He'll get there.
Flem274*
123/5
Hurricane I think you're mixing up positive thinking with never wanting to hear criticism.
Positive thinking is a requirement. High goals are a requirement. Accepting how far away you are from number one and what you need to do to get there is also a requirement. Training hard and learning is a requirement. New Zealand have the first two, I hope they have the fourth but Turner is questioning the third. Without all four you aren't going to get anywhere.
Realism is a double edged sword in sport imo. I think you need the dream and the confidence, even fake it until you make it confidence, burning in you to keep you going through the heartbreak in the games and the tough love during practise, otherwise most would just become miserable and throw in the towel. Realism murders the dream. Realism points to New Zealand's cricketing history and it isn't pretty reading.
But then realism does keep you grounded. It is very easy to get lost in the fantasy of being awesome and not actually put in the work towards becoming awesome, because the fantasy requires no effort and feels really good. I don't think New Zealand do this though. When they get into winning positions they appear to get flustered and start to freeze up. There are a lot of reasons a team can get stage fright, so that's something only Hesson and the team can really know for sure.
Small goals are imperative to getting to the end goal though imo. Just simple short term ones like "win this test" and then again in the next test "win this test" regardless of the result in the previous. It's a cliche but ticking along achieving small goals makes the long term goal and achieving the dream much easier because you're paying more attention to the here and now.
Personally I think New Zealand teams should be aiming to be the best otherwise there is no point in playing any higher level of cricket in this country other than social cricket. A side happy to be the Plucky Little Kiwis but no more is a waste of athletes.
I completely back Turner saying what he did ftr. We haven't been getting much honesty out of NZC for a while now and whistleblowers are a great way to topple the ivory tower. I'm not saying Turner is right because I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but I'm glad he made the fans aware because dysfunctional sports bodies don't change without the fans throwing their toys first.
Positive thinking is a requirement. High goals are a requirement. Accepting how far away you are from number one and what you need to do to get there is also a requirement. Training hard and learning is a requirement. New Zealand have the first two, I hope they have the fourth but Turner is questioning the third. Without all four you aren't going to get anywhere.
Realism is a double edged sword in sport imo. I think you need the dream and the confidence, even fake it until you make it confidence, burning in you to keep you going through the heartbreak in the games and the tough love during practise, otherwise most would just become miserable and throw in the towel. Realism murders the dream. Realism points to New Zealand's cricketing history and it isn't pretty reading.
But then realism does keep you grounded. It is very easy to get lost in the fantasy of being awesome and not actually put in the work towards becoming awesome, because the fantasy requires no effort and feels really good. I don't think New Zealand do this though. When they get into winning positions they appear to get flustered and start to freeze up. There are a lot of reasons a team can get stage fright, so that's something only Hesson and the team can really know for sure.
Small goals are imperative to getting to the end goal though imo. Just simple short term ones like "win this test" and then again in the next test "win this test" regardless of the result in the previous. It's a cliche but ticking along achieving small goals makes the long term goal and achieving the dream much easier because you're paying more attention to the here and now.
Personally I think New Zealand teams should be aiming to be the best otherwise there is no point in playing any higher level of cricket in this country other than social cricket. A side happy to be the Plucky Little Kiwis but no more is a waste of athletes.
I completely back Turner saying what he did ftr. We haven't been getting much honesty out of NZC for a while now and whistleblowers are a great way to topple the ivory tower. I'm not saying Turner is right because I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but I'm glad he made the fans aware because dysfunctional sports bodies don't change without the fans throwing their toys first.
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