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*Official* English Football Season 2010-11

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Dispute with the board. The board are willing to accept a lower figure for Milner than O'Neil wanted. They then said he wouldn't be allowed to reinvest the entire sum either. Then there were noises made about selling Young to Tottenham and Agbonglahor to Liverpool over his head. So he quit.


Apparently.
 

vcs

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Ah, I see. I think it's a bad move for both parties so it's a shame.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
My thoughts were it's to do with Milner - a) that Randy has accepted the money rather than players or b) that Randy won't pay the wages demanded by the players in the swap.

Have to say that if it were something like £20m + Ireland then Villa should've snapped their arms off.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
He's a limited manager and he's taken Aston Villa as far as he possibly can. If Lerner is selling players over his head and not giving him the cash to re-invest, then staying at Villa makes no sense for Wibble.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
O'neil should have gone to Liverpool when Rafa went.Would have been a better situation for both parties.

I bet Fulham are wishing he would have quit a bit earlier. And Mark Hughes is probably thinking the same.
One of the most intelligent and knwoledgable British Manager,though may not look that way. Could easily be the next England boss.
 
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Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
He's a limited manager and he's taken Aston Villa as far as he possibly can. If Lerner is selling players over his head and not giving him the cash to re-invest, then staying at Villa makes no sense for Wibble.
Don't think he is too limited a manager.Done well at whatever club he has been in .

But agree without any investment he brought Villa to as far as they could go.So good move from his point of view because if they start selling their best players and not reinvesting then there is one direction only in which they can go.


Rumours abuzz that Marting Jol could be the next Villa boss,but if the murmurs about selling young and Milner and not reinvesting are true then don't see why would he leave Ajax to join them.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Don't think he is too limited a manager.Done well at whatever club he has been in .

But agree without any investment he brought Villa to as far as they could go.So good move from his point of view because if they start selling their best players and not reinvesting then there is one direction only in which they can go.


Rumours abuzz that Marting Jol could be the next Villa boss,but if the murmurs about selling young and Milner and not reinvesting are true then don't see why would he leave Ajax to join them.
He's done well, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his limitations.

If I was a chairman and wanted a manager to guide my side to being comfortable top half finishers/Europa contenders, O'Neill would be one of the managers at the top of my shortlist.

If I had any ambitions of breaking into the top 4, I'd stay well clear of O'Neill.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
He's done well, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his limitations.

If I was a chairman and wanted a manager to guide my side to being comfortable top half finishers/Europa contenders, O'Neill would be one of the managers at the top of my shortlist.

If I had any ambitions of breaking into the top 4, I'd stay well clear of O'Neill.
If I was a Rangers fan with a chip on my shoulder I would probably make a post like this.
 

vcs

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O'Neill's style of football is ugly and anachronistic but can't argue with his results at Villa.
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
O'Neill does seem to favour the "Big man + quick man" option up front.

Do think it's fair to say he has his limitations. Nigh on all managers do.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
O'Neill spent a net total of 81 million pounds in the 4 years he's been at Villa - almost the same as what Benitez got in 6 years at Liverpool. That's a heck of a lot of money for a team like Villa. Agree with GF here in that I don't think he is a top 4 manager - the kind you give the reigns to, to take you into Europe and hopefully win the competition. Think he did well overall but certainly was backed well by Lerner, so don't really think leaving was a good move if the issue was more money.
 
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Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
O'Neill spent a net total of 81 million pounds in the 4 years he's been at Villa - almost the same as what Benitez got in 6 years at Liverpool. That's a heck of a lot of money for a team like Villa. Agree with GF here in that I don't think he is a top 4 manager - the kind you give the reigns to, to take you into Europe and hopefully win the competition. Think he did well overall but certainly was backed well by Lerner, so don't really think leaving was a good move if the issue was more money.
£16,460,000 per season is what he averages.

Transfer League Managers Table | Premier League Transfer Leagues

And with what he had their before he went there ,he has done very well in getting them into contention for European places and has also assembled a young squad with a british core to it.
They can reclaim more than half of that 82 million by Selling Milner and Young and they would still be better off than when he came to Villa.
 

cpr

International Coach
He's done well, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his limitations.

If I was a chairman and wanted a manager to guide my side to being comfortable top half finishers/Europa contenders, O'Neill would be one of the managers at the top of my shortlist.

If I had any ambitions of breaking into the top 4, I'd stay well clear of O'Neill.

TBH, the more I think about this, the more I agree.

If any team is in a position to break into the top 4, along with Everton and Spurs, its Villa, yet they've never kicked on, never really made that win or bust move transfer wise. Sorta consolidated them as a side that qualifies for Europe, without pulling them anywhere near a push for a CL bearth.

Apart from winning the coin toss that is the SPL a few times, and one good run in Europe (though in the runners up cup, with a shocking euro away record), all he's really got is credentials in League Cup runs.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
TBH, the more I think about this, the more I agree.

If any team is in a position to break into the top 4, along with Everton and Spurs, its Villa, yet they've never kicked on, never really made that win or bust move transfer wise. Sorta consolidated them as a side that qualifies for Europe, without pulling them anywhere near a push for a CL bearth.

Apart from winning the coin toss that is the SPL a few times, and one good run in Europe (though in the runners up cup, with a shocking euro away record), all he's really got is credentials in League Cup runs.
To be fair to O'Neill, his shocking away record in Europe was in the Champions League. His UEFA Cup run included a 2-0 win at Blackburn, 3-2 defeat against Stuttgart (Celtic were 3-1 up from the 1st leg and went 2-0 up after about 15 minutes), a 2-0 win at Anfield and a 1-0 win in Boavista, both after drawing the home leg 1-1. His home record in Europe included beating Porto, Juventus, Lyon, and drawing with Bayern Munich and AC Milan. IIRC only Barcelona in 04/05 went to Parkhead and won in the CL proper.

However, he's too limited to do anything else - check where he's signed players from. In his entire career, I think he's signed a grand total of 6 players from clubs outwith the UK and didn't have a tremendous record at bringing young talent through at Celtic - no genuinely top 4 manager without a bottomless pit of cash would have those limitations, and that's not to mention how limited O'Neill is tactically.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
If I was a Rangers fan with a chip on my shoulder I would probably make a post like this.
Has nothing to do with his Celtic past, I hate O'Neill because he was a bigoted arsehole who set Scottish football back at least a decade wrt to the sectarian problem. The fact that he made Celtic a force as well is another reason I despise him, but I will grudgingly accept he's a good manager.

If I was chairman of say, Wigan or Stoke, teams who have had a couple of years in the Premier League and wanted to kick on to become a solid top half side and maybe challenge for the Europa, I can't think of many managers who'd be better for the job than O'Neill. If I was Tottenham, Man City, or Villa, perennial top 7 sides who want to break the top 4, I wouldn't touch O'Neill - because he doesn't have it in him to get his sides to reach that level.

edit: or what Gabriele Marcotti said.
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
If any team is in a position to break into the top 4, along with Everton and Spurs, its Villa, yet they've never kicked on, never really made that win or bust move transfer wise.
How much of that is down to O'Neill and how much Lerner though?
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
How much of that is down to O'Neill and how much Lerner though?
A lot down to O'Neill: he's blown a lot of cash on some spectacularly average players, because for some reason he's unwilling to shop abroad. In terms of net spend I'm pretty sure only Manchester City have spent more than Aston Villa while O'Neill's had the job.
 

Uppercut

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Jeez guys, Villa finished 16th the year before he joined. The fact that people are now bemoaning his inability to finish above Liverpool or Arsenal speaks volumes for just how good a job he did with the club. He was only even there for four years! I'm not sure there's a manager in the world who could take a club from 16th to the top four in the space of four years. Fair point on his inability to look outside his comfort zone with regards to players or tactics, but his bare achievements were fantastic. And he was pretty unlucky not to win a trophy last season, given the Vidic incident in the final.

My biggest criticism of O'Neill would be that he's leaving rather than trying to take the club to the next step.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Jeez guys, Villa finished 16th the year before he joined. The fact that people are now bemoaning his inability to finish above Liverpool or Arsenal speaks volumes for just how good a job he did with the club. He was only even there for four years! I'm not sure there's a manager in the world who could take a club from 16th to the top four in the space of four years. Fair point on his inability to look outside his comfort zone with regards to players or tactics, but his bare achievements were fantastic. And he was pretty unlucky not to win a trophy last season, given the Vidic incident in the final.

My biggest criticism of O'Neill would be that he's leaving rather than trying to take the club to the next step.
Apart from this 'genius'



Ok I know it is not really a fair comparison.

Anyway I largely agree with you, look at how much money teams like Sunderland and West Ham spent on tranfers and wages without getting anywhere near the top 4.
 
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cpr

International Coach
Villa were a yo-yo side, could push for Europe or implode, that was down to poor managers. Certainly during the Premiership era they've been a club that should be top 6/8, with a solid fanbase and decent squads (Their Prem record backs this up, the only seasons they've finished out of the prem top 8 are 94, 95, 03, 05, 06, 07, the last being O'Neils first season)

O'Neil brought them stability, and consistency, however he's not really taken them up a gear beyond what they should've been achieving anyway. They've perennially had the squad thats said 'Europe is a must', yet he's never gone for the players that would try and push on.

As Marcotti says in the article above
he's bought British players, mostly young ones, for which he's been widely praised. But again, it's not as if he's unearthed gems, signing some teenage left back from Colchester who then goes on to become the next Stuart Pearce or an underrated striker from Reading whose career he helps get back on track. Most of his British signings are fairly obvious ones - well-known players at market prices, whether it's Stewart Downing or Ashley Young or James Milner. There's no great nous or imagination there, it's basically a case of bringing in brand names. And paying accordingly for the privilege

Not saying he's a bad manager, and I personally like him, but he's not exactly excelled at Villa. And pointing a finger at Lerner just deflects criticism for me, because his predecessors all had Deadly Doug as chairman, yet still managed the same......

Interestingly, I think O'Neil might be one of the few British bosses who'd work OK under the Continental system of being a first team coach, with a General Manager/Director of Football conducting transfers/scoutings.... So long as he had control over training/first XI/squad management, he'd do well with someone else giving him the players/future stars
 

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