Is Ricky Ponting a better batsman than Brian Lara?

[aussie]

The other thing is Ponting could perform under pressure much better, as captain both Lara and Tendulkar crumbled and Ponting has lead from the front.

Am Lara in 99 vs AUS. Plus in his last days as captain, Lara was very inspirational, Bravo will tesitify to this.

Tendy had is issues while captaining yes. But in AUS 99/00 he lead from the front with the bat.

 

[Pratters]

I never thought I'd hear such crappy reasoning from you mate.



Ponting did much better against the best bowlers in the 90s compared to Lara. In fact, it is against the lesser-likes that he failed in the 90s. So this point can't be used against Ponting, and anyone who does use it clearly has not followed his career properly. From 2000 onwards, he shellacked all those same lesser-likes and everybody else. He has arguably one of the most complete records of all time and the only blight on his record is against India in India.

Sobers, for example, who you do rate as a great has an even less complete record as he fails both home and away against New Zealand and his record against them is much poorer than Ponting's against India.

I don't care who you rate as better, but Ponting IS an all-time great and deserves to be mentioned with the best batsmen to have ever graced a cricket pitch. Just like Tendulkar and just like Lara.

I am not talking about records here. Stats are for the stat pundits to decipher. I don't hold Ponting's failures in India against him either. I rate him very highly, just not as highly as a Tendulkar or a Lara and I don't think that is some thing some one cannot say. I hold Ponting equal to a Rahul Dravid whom I rate very highly as well. All greats as I said. Not denying that.

 

[Ikki]

I am not talking about records here. Stats are for the stat pundits to decipher. I don't hold Ponting's failures in India against him either. I rate him very highly, just not as highly as a Tendulkar or a Lara and I don't think that is some thing some one cannot say.

Their records put them dead level. Anything else is arbitrary. There is nothing that Tendulkar has done that Ponting has not gotten close to, or even surpassed.

To sum up: neither Lara nor Tendulkar have done anything to suggest that they are a level higher than Ponting.

Imagine me saying that Viv is an all-time great, and Tendulkar is not an all-time great. He is just under that level. He is not in the top 5-6 batsmen of all-time.

It is a conspicuously limited argument. Might as well say you think Gilchrist is better than Sobers because you much rather a slogger.

You bring up:

I consider only 5-6 players in the greatest ever league who could battle against the best in the toughest of conditions and I have a very high standard for it. Would be people like Bradman, Sobers, Tendulkar, Lara, Gavaskar and the like. They are in their own league and Ponting is a rung below imo. He is definitely consistent like you say but the likes of Ponting, Dravid while they are great batsmen, are not among the greatest ever where I am concerned. Nothing wrong with them, just that the greatest are that much more greater.

So it means you are talking about their records. And as aforesaid, Ponting in the 90s performed better against the better attacks. In fact, if you think performances against the best matter most, Steve Waugh probably has a better claim than all 3 others mentioned here.

 

[bagapath]

Lara's away form is not upto the likes of Tendulkar and Ponting IMO..

Lara and Ponting both average more at home than away. both average about 10 points extra in their respective countries than in other nations. Tendulkar is the one with a better away record. You cant split ponting and lara on this. May be you chose to ignore ponting's indian record and tried to bunch him with sachin. but that is not correct.

Both Lara and Ponting have very similar batting averages. Lara started his career five years earlier. so his numbers are slightly lower. But for the times they played in 52.88 and 55.88 dont look too different.

Both were big match players who did well agains the very best bowlers they got to play. Both had great appetite for runs. They could play the long innings. they could play a quick fire camero too if the situation demanded. They could attack. They could defend. They could play spin and pace with equal ease, most of the time.

still I would put lara ahead of ponting. and this is purely a personal choice. i like his style better. i am a sucker for panache and showmanship. not that ricky is a bore. but lara is a master magician at the crease. for his grace alone i have to put him slightly ahead of ponting, with just enough gap between them to sneak in sachin tendulkar. that would be just about right.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Lara and Ponting both average more at home than away. both average about 10 points extra in their respective countries than in other nations. Tendulkar is the one with a better away record. You cant split ponting and lara on this. May be you chose to ignore ponting's indian record and tried to bunch him with sachin. but that is not correct.

Both Lara and Ponting have very similar batting averages. Lara started his career five years earlier. so his numbers are slightly lower. But for the times they played in 52.88 and 55.88 dont look too different.

Both were big match players who did well agains the very best bowlers they got to play. Both had great appetite for runs. They could play the long innings. they could play a quick fire camero too if the situation demanded. They could attack. They could defend. They could play spin and pace with equal ease, most of the time.

still I would put lara ahead of ponting. and this is purely a personal choice. i like his style better. i am a sucker for panache and showmanship. not that ricky is a bore. but lara is a master magician at the crease. for his grace alone i have to put him slightly ahead of ponting, with just enough gap between them to sneak in sachin tendulkar. that would be just about right.

Ikki is right about the away thing. I posted it before, posting it again.

In Australia - Ponting 60.87 Lara 41.97
In England - Ponting 44.10 Lara 48.76
In India - Ponting 20.86 Lara 33
In New Zealand - Ponting 97.66 Lara 36.90
In Pakistan- Ponting 119 Lara 48.15
In South Africa - Ponting 54.18 Lara 46.72
In Sri Lanka - Ponting 54.45 Lara 100.85
In West Indies - Ponting 78 Lara 58.65

If we take anything >50 as success, Ponting has succeeded in Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan,South Africa, Sri Lanka and West Indies. For Lara, it's only Sri Lanka and West Indies. So if you leave aside West Indies, which is his home, he averages 50+ only in Sri Lanka. Ponting on the other hand averages 50+ in Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, South Africa, Sri Lanka and West Indies.

 

[Ikki]

Lara and Ponting both average more at home than away. both average about 10 points extra in their respective countries than in other nations. Tendulkar is the one with a better away record. You cant split ponting and lara on this. May be you chose to ignore ponting's indian record and tried to bunch him with sachin. but that is not correct.

Not really. Ponting's overall away record is about as good as Tendulkar's. If you factor in a country-to-country evaluation it is really better as Ponting's India record weighs down the rest of his away record severely - yet it is only one place; he averages 59 overall with every other place bar India. Ponting averages only <50 in two countries (one is 44 in England, the other 20 in India), Tendulkar averages <50 against 4 countries.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

And just a request - can we keep this to Lara vs Ponting?

 

[arcane]

How about we compare 10 best innings by both players instead of cherry picking stats? 10 innings that we feel would show their true strength,talent etc..

I like the fact that Tendulkar's average is <50 in 4 countries and one of them is Zimbabwe. Now, not only is that data too small but if we were having a Ponting vs Tendulkar discussion Zim. would count as a "minnow".

 

[Ikki]

How about we compare 10 best innings by both players instead of cherry picking stats? 10 innings that we feel would show their true strength,talent etc..

That kinda is cherry picking.

I like the fact that Tendulkar's average is <50 in 4 countries and one of them is Zimbabwe. Now, not only is that data too small but if we were having a Ponting vs Tendulkar discussion Zim. would count as a "minnow".

Actually, it's 5 counting Zimbabwe. I didn't count them, but he's played them 4 times. Usually I'd count it, I didn't because I had automatically removed B/Z.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Let us stick to Ponting vs Lara for now mate.

 

[Ikki]

Sure, but it should be vivid for anyone arguing Ponting is not upto Lara's level yet that he is so close to - if not better than - Tendulkar.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Sure, but it should be vivid for anyone arguing Ponting is not upto Lara's level yet that he is so close to - if not better than - Tendulkar.

Personally I think Ponting=Tendulkar >Lara. Just my opinion. By the reason I am requesting everyone to stick to the topic is because we've had loads of Tendulkar vs Lara and Tendulkar vs Ponting debates.

 

[arcane]

That kinda is cherry picking.

Yes, it is. But if you are gonna cherry pick anyways and not to mention cherry picking of stats of all things, why not cherry pick innings to showcase their abilities instead of some number?

Actually, it's 5 counting Zimbabwe. I didn't count them, but he's played them 4 times. Usually I'd count it, I didn't because I had automatically removed B/Z.

I am sorry I thought counting NZ @ 49.52 would not be right.

Anyways, the only reason why Ponting could be better than Lara is because of consistency. Lara just loses out there. And if you count ODI records like I do than Ponting is a slightly better ODI player than Lara.

 

[silentstriker]

Short answer: no.
Longer answer: nope.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Btw guys please vote.

 

[Ikki]

Yes, it is. But if you are gonna cherry pick anyways and not to mention cherry picking of stats of all things, why not cherry pick innings to showcase their abilities instead of some number?

10 innings is kinda limited, no? It doesn't speak of their consistency.

I am sorry I thought counting NZ @ 49.52 would not be right.

Anyways, the only reason why Ponting could be better than Lara is because of consistency. Lara just loses out there. And if you count ODI records like I do than Ponting is a slightly better ODI player than Lara.

49.52 is less than 50. Anyway, the point was to show how good Ponting is away from home, which is actually hidden merely because of his record in India. His record elsewhere is fantastic.

To me, consistency is a huge part of the game. It shouldn't be said that Lara wasn't consistent; Ponting was just that bit more consistent.

 

[Faisal1985]

I must tilt towards Lara, although no offense to Ponting, but i would personally go with Lara over Ponting anyday...

 

[arcane]

10 innings is kinda limited, no? It doesn't speak of their consistency.





49.52 is less than 50. Anyway, the point was to show how good Ponting is away from home, which is actually hidden merely because of his record in India. His record elsewhere is fantastic.

To me, consistency is a huge part of the game. It shouldn't be said that Lara wasn't consistent; Ponting was just that bit more consistent.

I dont thinkn 10 innings is too little a sample to showcase a player's genius.

Anyways, I know what you were trying to say with those stats but you should remember that most people who choose Lara over Ponting or Tendulkar dont do it because of the stats but rather for his genius/abilities/style/etc. etc.

 

[chalky]

Am Lara in 99 vs AUS. Plus in his last days as captain, Lara was very inspirational, Bravo will tesitify to this.

Tendy had is issues while captaining yes. But in AUS 99/00 he lead from the front with the bat.

Lara in that series produced the greatest batting I've ever seen from anyone. Can't imagine anyone being better.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Lara.

LaraLaraLaraLaraLara.

Lara.

Some players just transcend statistical analysis and have to be seen to be fully appreciated. Brian Charles is one of them. The little genius was touched by the hand of God. Happily as his career was in the age of blanket tv coverage future generations will be able to see him at his zenith for themselves.