Has Tim Southee "arrived"?

[morgieb]

I reckon a lot of it is indignation from a vocal minority. He's a fat little medium quick with a h4x record, so everyone is waiting for him to fail/can't wait for him to fail as a kind of "see, he's **** really" petty revenge because he doesn't fit the archetype of the world class quick. I reckon if we had a forum in McGrath's early days we would have seen the same sort of thing once he established himself after a slow start (McGrath was a very different bowler, but also a guy who would have been prone to being underrated early on).

I think the bloke is fantastic. Makes it look so simple.

This makes sense. Also his *too good* stats don't help, the fact that he overshadows a more typical kind of fast bowler and he seems to be a bit of a **** means that he seems to be a quick target for criticism.

 

[Hurricane]

Haha 7 NZ threads on cricket chat's home page must be a record.

 

[Maximas]

Yeah it's a pity that Benchy's cleared off.

Not really

 

[Athlai]

Benchy also probably thinks Doolan is better than Taylor so yeah. Not really the guy you go to for a impartial opinion.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So everyone here rates Southee ahead of Boult then?

Serious question as I rate Boult higher of the two.

 

[Days of Grace]

At their best, I'd probably shoot for Boult, but Southee is the more consistent bowler. Boult can have his off days, whilst Southee almost inevitably ends up with a 3-fer these days. Southee is also much better with the older ball from what I have seen.

 

[Flem274*]

I think Boult's best gets overstated relative to Southee a bit because his wild days are so frustrating in comparison. I think Boult is definitely more ominous with a swinging ball in his hand, but not by much. Tends to take wickets in huge bunches as well.

Southee is now at a stage where every spell is dangerous.

 

[Bahnz]

In NZ conditions anyway. I reckon he's still got a bit more to do in order to prove himself in conditions where the new ball stops swinging after the first 20 overs. He was brilliant in that SRL series with the new ball, but he became rather tame in his 2nd and 3rd spells. The upcoming tours of WI and UAE will be enlightening in that respect.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

So everyone here rates Southee ahead of Boult then?

Serious question as I rate Boult higher of the two.

Southee is the far superior independent bowler. Put him into any old bowling attack and IMO he'd be able to chip away and generate good pressure from one end regardless of what's happening at the other. Boult tends to rely on the pressure built by Southee a bit - he's far less effective bowling as the leader of the attack and wouldn't have anywhere as good a record if he was a lone wolf. Doesn't have much of a plan B to keep the pressure on apart from spraying it wide.

 

[Howsie]

Now this is just silly. And I say this as a guy who is at the point of supporting NZ just as much as his home country.

Why? Southee's record since he was dropped against South Africa two years ago stacks up against anyone in the world. Infact he has a very similar record to Steyn during that period.

Tim Southee - 70 wickets @ 22.25, Econ 2.85, SR 46, 3 5fers and 1 10fer.
Dale Steyn - 84 wickets @ 22, Econ 2.88, SR 45.8, 5 5fers and 1 10fer

With Steyn having played three more matches. Guys like Broad, Anderson etc average over 30 during this period, 30. And it's not like this is just some small time period here, it's nigh on two years. I'd take Southee over a Ryan Harris for example because he's done proper damage in the SC during this period.

Tim Southee has arrived (as he was always going to do) and I highly doubt he's going to regress to his 19 year old self like so many are waiting for him to do.

 

[Flem274*]

popcorn.gif

 

[Furball]

I take it none of you watched Anderson last time England toured Sri Lanka then?

 

[wellAlbidarned]

the stereotype NZ inferiority complex in stronk in this thread.
"OMG, WE'VE GOT A DECENT PLAYER. THE WHOLE WORLD MUST ADMIT HE'S AWESOME"

 

[Blocky]

Southee is a much better bowler than Boult and has started to grow into someone who threatens in every type of condition. I think Boult largely relies on the swinging ball to be a threat, where as Southee is starting to get his off cutter working, has a pretty damn good bouncer (not as good as the Wagner rocket, but not far off) and can stay on line and length a lot longer.

 

[SteveNZ]

the stereotype NZ inferiority complex in stronk in this thread.
"OMG, WE'VE GOT A DECENT PLAYER. THE WHOLE WORLD MUST ADMIT HE'S AWESOME"

He is awesome. I think it's more that we've known for quite some time that he should be awesome, and now he's truly world class. I don't need to put him on a pedestal above Steyn, Philander, Harris, Anderson etc (who I all love watching bowl and rate very highly) as some might, I'm just enjoying his work

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, can't think of too many Boult dismissals that don't involve him swinging it into the batsman and getting a bit of nip either way off the pitch. Southee's bouncer is exceptionally accurate and I would rate it as better than Wagner's given the calibre of batsmen he's dismissed with it (Pujara on multiple occasions, Kohli, Sangakkara, Prior etc.). He also hits a much better length when the ball stops swinging, offers far fewer pressure-release balls, and his overall superior accuracy better allows him to target the various weaknesses in the techniques of different opposition batsmen.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

He is awesome. I think it's more that we've known for quite some time that he should be awesome, and now he's truly world class. I don't need to put him on a pedestal above Steyn, Philander, Harris, Anderson etc (who I all love watching bowl and rate very highly) as some might, I'm just enjoying his work

I agree completely. We should be able to just enjoy having an awesome player without having to justify him against other top bowlers. His class will become obvious to the world with time if he keeps this up.

 

[Blocky]

He is awesome. I think it's more that we've known for quite some time that he should be awesome, and now he's truly world class. I don't need to put him on a pedestal above Steyn, Philander, Harris, Anderson etc (who I all love watching bowl and rate very highly) as some might, I'm just enjoying his work

Agree with that - it's not really a case of pointing anything out other than you've got a guy who used to be threatening on his day put in a prolonged period of world class performances against all comers. I think Allan Donald set the motion in progress and Southee since then through maturity, having a partner in crime in Boult and getting past some of the injury niggles that used to sideline him frequently has developed bigtime and you can tell that the three seamers love playing with one another - it reminds me of Nash, Cairns and Doull days.

 

[Flem274*]

I agree completely. We should be able to just enjoy having an awesome player without having to justify him against other top bowlers. His class will become obvious to the world with time if he keeps this up.

And there are some quarters you will never get credit from because of their own personal baggage. If NZ are about to get considerably better then some fans are going to need to change their mindset from defense of the few decent players we have to being able to let some things go very soon. Tbh I'd rather this happened regardless but when you don't have much to cheer about it's easy to fire up when your few gems get pooped on.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

And there are some quarters you will never get credit from because of their own personal baggage. If NZ are about to get considerably better then some fans are going to need to change their mindset from defense of the few decent players we have to being able to let some things go very soon. Tbh I'd rather this happened regardless but when you don't have much to cheer about it's easy to fire up when your few gems get pooped on.

certain monkey infested quarters. Pretty sure he's just set on winding up easy targets rather than actually holding an opinion.