DoG's greatest test match batting performances

[Xuhaib]

Surprised at Malik's inclusion yes he absolutley murdered Warne but the pitch was an absolute road where even Aamir Malik scored a 65.

 

[Uppercut]

I think it depends on how much influence the teammates had on the result as well.

Example A: Consider a team chasing 450 in the 4th innings to win - Player A scores a magnificent 200* but his teammates let him down and they're all out for 420, thus losing the match.

Example B: Now consider the same situation - Player A plays the exact same innings, but one of his teammates puts his head down and sticks around for an invaluable half century late on and they reach 450/8 to record an amazing win.

Player A played exactly the same innings in both cases there - would you rate Example B a better knock though?

As Goughy says- absolutely. If you're 400/8 needing 50 more to win with a batsman on 190* at one end, HE has to see the team home. Accelerate, farm the strike, protect the tail-enders- whatever. He can't watch them get out then say "ah well, my knock was every bit as good as it would have been if we'd won". It doesn't work like that.

This is why i don't rate Tendulkar vs. Pakistan in the very top echelon of test innings.

 

[Days of Grace]

Tendulkar's recent knock against England would surely rate as one of his best.

Just thinking: Lara vs. Australia in 1999: is that the greatest series to be played by any batsman? Barring Bradman in England in 1930.

 

[Uppercut]

I have actually only done about 30 innings. So, I will do Gilchrist and Segwag's knocks later and see where they end up.

Also, I actually made a mistake! It is 35% boost to 4th innings scores or batting in a follow-on. Basically, I figured that is when a batsmen is under the most pressure, and it is a sitaution where many innings are remembered. If you cut this out, then Lara's 153* wouldn't even make the top 10, which is just wrong.

Your logic is sensible, but your last line of reasoning is a travesty. You can't design the equation to make the results fit your personal opinion! Plenty of people might not have Lara's 153* in the top 10. Personally i rank Gilchrist's innings quite a bit higher and it's not in the top 10, but it doesn't mean i'm going to fidget with the formula to get the results i want.

Anyway, 35% is waaay too much. Runs in the first innings are worth exactly the same as runs in the second innings, and pressure is a pretty subjective term. Also, have a look at Hayden's century in 30000 degree heat

Don't take these criticisms personally, btw, i'm just trying to help improve the formula. I feel a bit like i'm shouting from the sidelines while you do all the work

 

[Uppercut]

Tendulkar's recent knock against England would surely rate as one of his best.

Just thinking: Lara vs. Australia in 1999: is that the greatest series to be played by any batsman? Barring Bradman in England in 1930.

There's a thread on that somewhere.

Here is the series you're talking about. This was the series that immediately came to my mind, more due to it being relatively fresh in my mind than anything. Shiv Chanderpaul making 446 runs @ 148.67 in England not so long ago.

 

[Ikki]

Yeh, I'd be interested to see where Hayden's knock against the Pakistanis in 50 degree heat stands.

 

[bagapath]

Tendulkar's recent knock against England would surely rate as one of his best.

Just thinking: Lara vs. Australia in 1999: is that the greatest series to be played by any batsman? Barring Bradman in England in 1930.

England in Australia, 1936-37

bradman's first series as captain - the 36-37 ashes down under - is arguable better than the other two you've got. to come from 0-2 behind and win it 3-2 bradman the batsman had to be at his very best. the series turning double in the third test is one of the most significant knocks of all time.

3rd TEST: Australia v England at Melbourne Cricket Ground, 1-7 Jan 1937

 

[nightprowler10]

Nice to see Akmal in that list.

 

[Evermind]

Another thing about dead rubbers is that not only does the side that has already won the series take it less seriously, but also the fact that several times, both sides will make changes in selection to bring in new, untested players, who will frequently fail. Now SA have Imraan and the new bowler. In Australia they had Bollinger coming in for Lee. The loss of intensity in dead rubbers is obvious, and I think it's right to have it factor into the equation.

 

[archie mac]

Have thought of a new criteria:
% of runs scored with the tail.

Think of Clem Hill's great knock in this match:

Cricinfo - 4th Test: Australia v England at Melbourne, Jan 29-Feb 2, 1898

If we take the tail as starting at 6 down, then he scored 81% of the runs scored whilst he was at the crease with the tail. You could argue that is one of the greatest knocks in test history.

An underrated player was Hill, esp. in comparison with Trumper.

When I finish my book on Clem, all that will be fixed

 

[Burgey]

Do any Pakistan fans have an opinion on Azhar Mahmood's 132 vs South Africa? He also played another great knock in the series. Such a great start to a career, and all downhill basically.

Anyway, does anyone remember that or Mark Waugh's century?

Don't recall Azhar's. Is M Waugh's the 4th innings one to win or save the test? IIRC he batted the entire day that time. Was probably his best test knock.

 

[gwo]

Just a quick one. Quality of opposition bowling should be taken into account

 

[Days of Grace]

And it is, don't worry.

For my batsmen career ratings, I have figured out the bowling averages for each team in each era (which I personally assigned).

For example, runs against the West Indies attack during the late 1980s would boost your score by 1.2%

Runs against Bangladesh in the early 2000s would mean it drops by about 35%

 

[Burgey]

Another thing about dead rubbers is that not only does the side that has already won the series take it less seriously, but also the fact that several times, both sides will make changes in selection to bring in new, untested players, who will frequently fail. Now SA have Imraan and the new bowler. In Australia they had Bollinger coming in for Lee. The loss of intensity in dead rubbers is obvious, and I think it's right to have it factor into the equation.

Bollinger came in for Lee as the latter broke his foot though.

For the most part, the Australian sides of the past 10 years or more (can't speak for the other sides so much) have rarely, if ever, given away test caps by way of experimentation. IIRC they've publicly stated they will not do it.

 

[Days of Grace]

List has been edited, as well as the criteria:

Runs scored 35%
O/B Ave 20%
Match Ave 12.5%
E/P 12.5%
S/R 5%
Won Match 5%
Live series 1%
Wickets falling whilst at the crease: 5%
% Runs scored with the tail-end (from 6 wickets down): 4%

Final totals are then boosted if...

Following-on: x.1.3
Chasing 4th innings target of 200+: x.1.25
3rd innings behind 100+: x1.15
3rd innings: x1.05
2nd innings chasing 400+: x1.1

Top 35

1 Botham 149 * Australia 1981 Leeds 955
2 Bannerman 165 * England 1877 Melbourne 955
3 Bradman 299 * South Africa 1932 Adelaide 930
4 Bradman 270 England 1937 Melbourne 928
5 Gooch 154 * West Indies 1991 Leeds 910
6 Laxman 281 Australia 2001 Kolkata 884
7 Sehwag 201 * Sri Lanka 2008 Galle 883
8 Kamran Akmal 113 India 2006 Karachi 875
9 Foster 287 Australia 1904 Sydney 867
10 Astle 222 England 2002 Christchurch 853
11 Gavaskar 236 * West Indies 1983 Chennai 845
12 Lara 153 * Australia 1999 Bridgetown 843
13 Warner 132 * South Africa 1899 Johannesburg 838
14 Jessop 104 Australia 1902 The Oval 835
15 Bradman 334 England 1930 Leeds 834
16 Hanif Mohammad 337 West Indies 1958 Bridgetown 810
17 Hill 188 England 1898 Melbourne 807
18 Hughes 100 * West Indies 1981 Melbourne 806
19 Houghton 266 Sri Lanka 1994 Bulawayo 804
20 Armstrong 159 * South Africa 1902 Johannesburg 796
21 Lara 213 Australia 1999 Kingston 790
22 Bonnor England 1885 Sydney 787
23 Azhar Mahmood 132 South Africa 1998 Durban 786
24 Lara 226 Australia 2005 Adelaide 776
25 Lloyd 161 India 1983 Kolkata 766
26 Saleem Malik 237 Australia 1995 Rawalpindi 757
27 Walcott 220 England 1954 Bridgetown 753
28 McCabe 232 England 1938 Nottingham 752
29 Lara 221 Sri Lanka 2001 Colombo 746
30 Jones 184 England 1987 Sydney 707
31 Lara 196 South Africa 2005 Port of Spain 698
32 McCabe 187 Australia 1932 Sydney 691
33 Lara 202 South Africa 2003 Johannesburg 689
34 Richards 291 England 1976 The Oval 676
35 Lara 375 England 1994 St. John's 675

 

[Athlai]

Astle at 10, awesome.

 

[Days of Grace]

Yeh, I'd be interested to see where Hayden's knock against the Pakistanis in 50 degree heat stands.

Registers 547 points. Of course, the heat cannot be factored in statistically.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Astle at 10, awesome.

Should be at 1!

 

[Matt79]

I'd be tempted to reverse the weightings of runs scored and other batsmen's average - what this doesn't capture, IMO, are the amazing innings played on minefields where someone like a Trumper, Hobbs, Harvey etc survive and made some kind of score when everyone else got shot out for single figures. Some people rate a couple of half centuries that Harvey got as his greatest innings given the degree of difficulty.

 

[Days of Grace]

Give me the link to a Harvey half-century masterpiece, and I will rate it for you.