Jimmy Anderson -Finally World Class?

[marc71178]

He's also a worse bowler than Glenn McGrath.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, and Bob Willis

 

[r3alist]

He is an irrelevance in the discussion of who the best bowlers in the world are, end of.

there is no final conclusion about his future is there?

plus if you ignore the fluff about your moral outrage you essentially agree with me, i was mainly responding to the joker who did not.

 

[Blaze 18]

Well this argument can be put to bed in the summer of 2011 as they meet in England where conditions will suit both.

I am not sure how much importance you can attach to one series. I expect James Anderson will outperform Zaheer Khan - he is far more familiar with the conditions afterall.

Anyway, I understand that it is a marginal one. I give the edge to Zaheer - current form or otherwise - because I think he is slightly better. Prince EWS' point about fitness almost made me reconsider, though.

 

[Blaze 18]

anderson is not fit to clean to asif's boots, are you new to cricket or something?

asif is in another planet to anderson, look at their respective records, the only bowler better than him is steyn, put it to a poll on this forum if you want

That is going a bit too far, to be honest. I rate Mohammad Asif higher myself, but the difference is nowhere as much as you are making it out to be. For one, there will always be a question mark on Asif's true potential; for another, the same he-performs-only-in-helpful-conditions argument can be used against him as well.

 

[Bun]

Zaheer Khan is comfortably ahead of James Anderson. Unlike Anderson who got **** lineups to bowl at in helpful conditions, Zaheer has done despite the subcontinent.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[shankar]

Nah disagree conditions for the Australian not NZL series were ideal for reverse the problem was apart from ZAK no other bowler from either side had a clue about reverse had there been someone like Malinga or Shoaib we could have seen the difference, not taking anything away from Zaheer who was far an away the best bowler on either side.

In the Mohali test in 2008 vs Aus the ball was reversing from about 15 overs - I would call those condtions as the reverse swing equivalent of a 'green pitch'. Whereas in the recent series any reverse swing on offer was only after 70 overs or so. So the conditions were tough for bowlers except during this small period. It was to Zaheer's credit that he maintained some control even when there wasn't much swing on offer - This was something he wasn't able to do previously.

 

[r3alist]

That is going a bit too far, to be honest. I rate Mohammad Asif higher myself, but the difference is nowhere as much as you are making it out to be. For one, there will always be a question mark on Asif's true potential; for another, the same he-performs-only-in-helpful-conditions argument can be used against him as well.

the difference is pretty big, asif was one of the quickest to 50 and 100 wickets.

bowls well in all or almost all conditions.

majority of his wickets are top order.

excellent average, has always been below <25.

consistent in his performance - never really has a stinker of a game.

excellent control and economy.

ofcourse all players benefot form advantageous conditions, but jimmy anderson takes the mick.

 

[Furball]

Zaheer Khan is comfortably ahead of James Anderson. Unlike Anderson who got **** lineups to bowl at in helpful conditions, Zaheer has done despite the subcontinent.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Ah, that old argument.

Zaheer is Indian, he should be good at bowling in the subcontinent. He doesn't get extra points for doing that.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Why not? Even ignoring the wickets, he's still bowling in the heat and humidity.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I am not sure how much importance you can attach to one series. I expect James Anderson will outperform Zaheer Khan - he is far more familiar with the conditions afterall.

Anyway, I understand that it is a marginal one. I give the edge to Zaheer - current form or otherwise - because I think he is slightly better. Prince EWS' point about fitness almost made me reconsider, though.

Zaheer was absolutely made for our conditions, hooped it round corners in 2007. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he takes a bagfull again.

Push comes to shove I'd take a fit Zak over Jimmy, I've admittedly seen more of the latter but have never really seen Zaheer blunted by conditions in the same way as Jimmy has been.

EDIT: Moot point tho as I consider both "world class" anyway.

 

[Furball]

wickets against australia and england are results

seriously, get a grip, take away his matches against an imploding australia

Which is it? Or do performances against Australia only matter when it suits your ******** agenda?

 

[morgieb]

Depends whether you want to factor in propensity to bowl deliberate no-balls and fitness. If you do, Jimmeh comes out comfortably ahead of Asif, Amir and Zaheer.

Also, in fairness to Morkel, his bowling made Jimmeh's look pretty piss-weak when they faced off a year ago.

Personally am unsure how match-fixing and fitness means that Jimmy's a better bowler than Zaheer, Asif and Amir. It's not like Zaheer has Bond/Jones-esque fitness either.....

 

[zaremba]

wow, do you realise how much of a contradiction you are?



z.khan
steyn
morkel
asif
amir
m.johnson (if anderson is allowed a bad patch then so is johnson)



are all better bowlers than anderson, proven to some extent in challenging conditions against good strong opposition


that makes anderson a mid ranking bowler at best, and the state of bowling is pretty weak right now.


seriously, get a grip, take away his matches against an imploding pakistan, minnows and now an imploding australia what do you have left?



his modest talents and abilities and his mental fragility should discount him from being anywhere near the top tier.

Worst post of 2010?

The fact that the poster is trying to have a pop at others while pouring out a stream of such genuine gibberish is really quite amusing.

 

[Blaze 18]

Zaheer was absolutely made for our conditions, hooped it round corners in 2007. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he takes a bagfull again.

Push comes to shove I'd take a fit Zak over Jimmy, I've admittedly seen more of the latter but have never really seen Zaheer blunted by conditions in the same way as Jimmy has been.

EDIT: Moot point tho as I consider both "world class" anyway.

Agreed.

 

[Blaze 18]

Personally am unsure how match-fixing and fitness means that Jimmy's a better bowler than Zaheer, Asif and Amir. It's not like Zaheer has Bond/Jones-esque fitness either.....

I can see merit in both sides of the argument, personally. On one hand, you could argue that fitness has got little to do with how good a bowler is; a fitter bowler is not always better. On the other hand, it is hard to rate a bowler who keeps breaking down. While Zaheer Khan is no Shane Bond when it comes to fitness, he has been missing matches a bit too frequently for my liking. He has missed four tests in 2010 alone.

 

[Prince EWS]

I can see merit in both sides of the argument, personally. On one hand, you could argue that fitness has got little to do with how good a bowler is; a fitter bowler is not always better. On the other hand, it is hard to rate a bowler who keeps breaking down. While Zaheer Khan is no Shane Bond when it comes to fitness, he has been missing matches a bit too frequently for my liking. He has missed four tests in 2010 alone.

To me it just comes down to how useful he is to the team.

Who's going to win you more games - a world class bowler who plays 3/4 games, or a world class bowler who may or may not be the tiniest of fractions worse but plays every game?

 

[Blaze 18]

To me it just comes down to how useful he is to the team.

Who's going to win you more games - a world class bowler who plays 3/4 games, or a world class bowler who may or may not be the tiniest of fractions worse but plays every game?

Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. I still would not be too harsh on Zaheer though, because he has not always been like this. He may well go on to play hundred tests, which is a huge achievement for a fast bowler. The fitness argument would be more apt for someone like Shoaib Akhtar.

 

[r3alist]

Worst post of 2010?

The fact that the poster is trying to have a pop at others while pouring out a stream of such genuine gibberish is really quite amusing.

rather than resort to ad hominem why not discuss it properly based on ability and records?

 

[zaremba]

rather than resort to ad hominem why not discuss it properly based on ability and records?

It wasn't ad hominem. I was referring to the gibberish you wrote and not to your character.

And yes, what you wrote was genuine gibberish. Sure let's leave Anderson's performance against Australia out of account because Australia were "imploding". Did it cross your mind that they were imploding precisely because he bowled outstandingly well on the world's most notorious road at Adelaide? Did you consider that when he bowled so damn well at the Gabba it was against well-set high-class batsmen who were in great form?