*Official* Pakistan in England 2010

[GIMH]

I begrudge them it, they've ruined my day

 

[slowfinger]

Awesome, awesome match for Pakistan, outside of the wobbly chase. Newbie pacer takes 5 on debut supported by some accurate bowling from the others, Pakistan actually bat a hundred overs, then bowl well enough to pressure England into playing bad shots, and to top it off they fielded relatively well. Just need these same batsmen to not throw their wickets away and we might actually be able to pull off a win at Lords.

Having watched Ajmal do well on this track the night before I was sure Pakistan would falter during the chase so decided not to watch. Seems I made a good decision. I'm not sure how many more of these chases I can take tbbh.

Don't throw a hundred away either, tbf.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think we're being a little harsh on Trott. He's never going to be a Virender Sehwag or even a Marcus Trescothick, but he does provide a solidity that's sadly lacking from the rest of our top six just now.

Clearly prefers the front foot, whereas the natural position for most English-raised players is the back foot to counter any movement off our less reliable surfaces, but of all the options who've bee tried and failed to prosper at the "difficult" #3 position of late (Bell, Bopara & Shah) he's the one who's most convinced.

 

[King Pietersen]

How about just scoring "runs"?
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Pretty incredible looking at those stats that Pietersen, although in the worst form of his career and without a century for 18 months has still made more runs than Collingwood and Strauss, at a better average than Collingwood too. Bell's record is exceptional also, should be no doubt as to whether he walks back into this side when fit. What would throw a spanner in the works would be a flawless, match-winning Morgan century at Lords. Bell will surely still come back in, but the selectors would then have to make a difficult decision as to who out of Morgan, Collingwood and Pietersen is left out, and for me that'd still have to be Morgan. There's no way I'd even consider dropping Trott, the bloke's averaging almost 50 in the last year, no way you can drop him, no matter how slowly he scores in the odd innings.

 

[pasag]

Well done Pak.

Best judge of England at the moment will probably be how they come back from this in the next match.

 

[tombarlow123]

Well done Pak.

Best judge of England at the moment will probably be how they come back from this in the next match.

This.

Losing that match was the best thing that could have happened to us. If several of our batsmen can now put in solid or spectacular performances at Lord's, we may stand more of a chance against the Aussies. If they continue this woeful run of collapses and low scores, then we do not stand a chance, no matter what Bob Willis might say.

Come on KP!

 

[Fusion]

Awesome, awesome match for Pakistan, outside of the wobbly chase. Newbie pacer takes 5 on debut supported by some accurate bowling from the others, Pakistan actually bat a hundred overs, then bowl well enough to pressure England into playing bad shots, and to top it off they fielded relatively well. Just need these same batsmen to not throw their wickets away and we might actually be able to pull off a win at Lords.

Having watched Ajmal do well on this track the night before I was sure Pakistan would falter during the chase so decided not to watch. Seems I made a good decision. I'm not sure how many more of these chases I can take tbbh.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Sanz]

Awesome, awesome match for Pakistan, outside of the wobbly chase. Newbie pacer takes 5 on debut supported by some accurate bowling from the others, Pakistan actually bat a hundred overs, then bowl well enough to pressure England into playing bad shots, and to top it off they fielded relatively well. Just need these same batsmen to not throw their wickets away and we might actually be able to pull off a win at Lords.

Having watched Ajmal do well on this track the night before I was sure Pakistan would falter during the chase so decided not to watch. Seems I made a good decision. I'm not sure how many more of these chases I can take tbbh.

Pretty common reaction these days among Pakistani fans. I work at a place where many Pakistanis are working and pretty much all of them were of the opinion that "We will find a way to lose" kind of sentiment.

 

[slowfinger]

Pretty common reaction these days among Pakistani fans. I work at a place where many Pakistanis are working and pretty much all of them were of the opinion that "We will find a way to lose" kind of sentiment.

Why take that atttitude towards cricket? What happend to the days where if Pakistan even lost there would be bhangra everywhere?

 

[Jacknife]

I hope England come out at Lords with the same attitude as they did after they lost that ODi against Bangladesh a few months ago,their whole attitude was different and they really stamped their authority on the opposition which was exactly what was needed. I get the impression with England,that they need these kinds of loses to bring things back into perspective for them and not to get carried away thinking they are better than they actually are.I think if they had won this test series 4-0, I don't think it would have done them any favours at all going into the Ashes,they needed testing and now they are getting that test,lets see how they can respond.

 

[tombarlow123]

It was his debut test and they bowled to his strengths. He's not a bad batsman, he just needs to add more shots to his game because otherwise any half decent bowling attack is just going to frustrate him by dragging their length back and waiting for him to eventually make a mistake.

Well, Pakistan is much, much more than a 'half decent' bowling attack (in fact, i think, the best in the world) and he's not doing too badly in this series so far...

 

[Faisal1985]

I hope England come out at Lords with the same attitude as they did after they lost that ODi against Bangladesh a few months ago,their whole attitude was different and they really stamped their authority on the opposition which was exactly what was needed. I get the impression with England,that they need these kinds of loses to bring things back into perspective for them and not to get carried away thinking they are better than they actually are.I think if they had won this test series 4-0, I don't think it would have done them any favours at all going into the Ashes,they needed testing and now they are getting that test,lets see how they can respond.

Yeah...another loss would just be the perfect thing for England.

 

[Prince EWS]

How likely is it that Peter Siddle will be fit? I think he'd fancy the prospect of bowling at Trott.

Yeah - as I said before I see a lot of McKenzie in Trott and McKenzie had all sorts of problems with Siddle.

Siddle's pretty much fit now; just not "match fit". I doubt he'll be playing in the Ashes anyway though; he's the fourth best quick at best.

 

[Himannv]

Well done Pakistan. Awesome job and hope they keep moving forward as a team, politics aside. Cheers.

 

[Prince EWS]

That's my point, I don't get the continual criticism of Trott from some people when he's putting up better performances than the majority of our other batsmen.
The guy's doing well, he's still relatively inexperienced at this level, having only been in the side for a year. But he's doing his job at 3, besides the series in South Africa where he was horrifically out of touch he's scored some important runs for us.

I think the point is that, while the others are out of form, they've shown over the course of their careers that their techniques can stand the test of time (apart from perhaps Cook). Trott's in pretty good form which is perhaps disguising the fact that he's just not really a Test #3. He's scored some runs but they have to be taken into context - his debut hundred was scored down the order and no-one knew a lot about him yet, and he bashed Bangladesh in England which isn't a particularly testing challenge. At #3 in Test cricket, excluding the Bangers, he's scored 305 runs in 7 Tests @ 30.55 - I think that's a concern. Perhaps not the biggest concern in the batting lineup given the poor form of established players, but a concern all the same. Ian Bell is probably the batsman with the least question marks over his head at this point which really says it all.

No-one's suggesting he should be dropped, at all, but I think it's completely fair to bring up obvious concerns about his technique. He's got some pretty glaring ones - he can't play spin, he can only score off half-volleys and he plays around his front pad. Personally I do think he's a Test standard batsman but I think he's one of fairly moderate quality and I don't think he's a top order batsman. I tend to think of him more of Collingwood's replacement post-retirement as a solid batsman coming in at around five. Obviously there are no better options for #3 as it stands so he should bat there but I don't really think it's his go, particularly in Australia, and I don't think he'll do very well there. But we'll see.

 

[aussie]

I think the point is that, while the others are out of form, they've shown over the course of their careers that their techniques can stand the test of time (apart from perhaps Cook). Trott's in pretty good form which is perhaps disguising the fact that he's just not really a Test #3. He's scored some runs but they have to be taken into context - his debut hundred was scored down the order and no-one knew a lot about him yet, and he bashed Bangladesh in England which isn't a particularly testing challenge. At #3 in Test cricket, excluding the Bangers, he's scored 305 runs in 7 Tests @ 30.55 - I think that's a concern. Perhaps not the biggest concern in the batting lineup given the poor form of established players, but a concern all the same. Ian Bell is probably the batsman with the least question marks over his head at this point which really says it all.

No-one's suggesting he should be dropped, at all, but I think it's completely fair to bring up obvious concerns about his technique. He's got some pretty glaring ones - he can't play spin, he can only score off half-volleys and he plays around his front pad. Personally I do think he's a Test standard batsman but I think he's one of fairly moderate quality and I don't think he's a top order batsman. I tend to think of him more of Collingwood's replacement post-retirement as a solid batsman coming in at around five. Obviously there are no better options for #3 as it stands so he should bat there but I don't really think it's his go, particularly in Australia, and I don't think he'll do very well there. But we'll see.

100% on point with this.

 

[tooextracool]

Yeah - as I said before I see a lot of McKenzie in Trott and McKenzie had all sorts of problems with Siddle.

Siddle's pretty much fit now; just not "match fit". I doubt he'll be playing in the Ashes anyway though; he's the fourth best quick at best.

Think Johnson more likely than Siddle to cause him problems anyways.

 

[tooextracool]

Andrew Strauss in particular has got off easy. No century in 12 matches. The fact that he's not scoring any runs is such a problem for the side that the policy seems to be to not mention it and hope it goes away. But he keeps nicking out outside off stump. I bring up his weakness to the outswinger periodically and it's got to be boring everyone, but it's still there, and with Bolly around the Aussies might actually be able to go after it this time.

Yep definitely having problems against the ball going away from him, though its akin to the problem that Gilchrist had towards the end of his career rather than just the outswinger. But yes, teams have definitely picked up on this and Morkel exposed it to great effect.

Theres definitely lots of issues for England. In addition to Strauss, Cook, Trott and Pietersen, the bowlers with the exception of Anderson and Swann are pretty ordinary as well. Broad has hardly covered himself with glory over the past year or so and Finn looks short of test class so I really hope he doesnt start the Ashes series.

 

[tooextracool]

Pretty incredible looking at those stats that Pietersen, although in the worst form of his career and without a century for 18 months has still made more runs than Collingwood and Strauss, at a better average than Collingwood too. Bell's record is exceptional also, should be no doubt as to whether he walks back into this side when fit. What would throw a spanner in the works would be a flawless, match-winning Morgan century at Lords. Bell will surely still come back in, but the selectors would then have to make a difficult decision as to who out of Morgan, Collingwood and Pietersen is left out, and for me that'd still have to be Morgan. There's no way I'd even consider dropping Trott, the bloke's averaging almost 50 in the last year, no way you can drop him, no matter how slowly he scores in the odd innings.

Im not sure what scoring runs against Bangladesh is supposed to prove but okay. Pietersen hasnt had a good series since the WI tour about a year and a half ago, which is also when he last scored a century.

And before we start throwing the knives out at Collingwood again, lets just remember that this is his first series of the summer and that his presence was gargantuan during both series during the winter. If you ask me, I would drop Pietersen for the last test, have Hampshire loan him out somewhere or play for Hampshire 2nd XI so that he can get some confidence under his belt. If Morgan fails again, then hes right back in for the first Ashes test.

 

[Prince EWS]

Im not sure what scoring runs against Bangladesh is supposed to prove but okay. Pietersen hasnt had a good series since the WI tour about a year and a half ago, which is also when he last scored a century.

And before we start throwing the knives out at Collingwood again, lets just remember that this is his first series of the summer and that his presence was gargantuan during both series during the winter. If you ask me, I would drop Pietersen for the last test, have Hampshire loan him out somewhere or play for Hampshire 2nd XI so that he can get some confidence under his belt. If Morgan fails again, then hes right back in for the first Ashes test.

And who gets brought in for Pietersen? Bopara? lol

Personally, I don't think Pietersen is the sort of character who'd react well to being dropped to Hampshire Second XI by scoring a stack of runs and getting his confidence back - he'd probably just have a hissy fit and refuse to play the game. Unless you don't think he's one of the best four middle order batsmen in the country then I really think you need to just ride out his poor form.