Tendulkar as a World Cup player (posts moved here)

[Ikki]

Please stick to one thing at a time please.

You say Ponting had to face more pressure than Sachin. And then say Ponting's captaincy was never in danger. So exactly how do you define pressure? And lol at your contention about captaincy in india.

I said Ponting had to face different pressure. For me, a more real pressure in losing the #1 spot. I never said it was just because he was captain, I said it was because he was our best batsman. Someone else brought up captaincy; and to an extent, I agreed. Then you bring up captaincy as if Sachin's captaincy comes with the same responsibilities or pressures as Ponting's. They clearly don't.

But you think by that account Ponting should have lost his captaincy for failing to beat India or the Ashes. No, he won't lose it just for that but will come under extreme scrutiny. It's a testament to the pressure, that Ponting is also one of the most successful captains of all time, yet throughout his tenure he's had many periods where people asked for him to be dropped.

 

[vcs]

The point of this thread has eluded me by a mile.

God I miss some real cricket ATM.

 

[Cevno]

Doesn't count, it was at home turf, against weak SA bowling. Mcgrath, Donald, Akram all have to be playing in a test match together to make any of his performance count, which has no chance because Akram's Citizenship to Australia application is rejected and Mcgrath says he can't wait for Akram to become a citizen. Only chance is to grant all three the citizenship of Pakistan and play the test match in England.

 

[bagapath]

true ikki. ponting succumbed to the pressure of playing for the no.1 team. he lost to india in perth that prevented him from overtaking the jointly held record of 16 wins at a stretch. he failed to beat SA at home and lost to India in India. And lost the ashes twice. he is no longer the no.1 batsman in the world. yup. being at the top is difficult.

sachin is averaging 88 at the moment for the no.1 team in the world. hope he continues the run and remains the no.1 batter in the world.

 

[Sir Alex]

I don't buy that whole pressure re the masses thing to near the same extent as others. Everybody has pressure to perform for their fans. And while I am sure he has his detractors, I am sure Tendulkar has 10x as many fanboys.

Have you ever been to india? Have you ever been to an indian stadium when Sachin plays?

If not, please stop your lecture on fanship and pressure in india.
When the men in blue step out to play, they not only think about their future position in the team, but also the safety of their family at home should they not perform.

Tell me your set of men in baggy green ever had to do that.

Despite losing a home series in more than a decade, was Ponting booed on his home ground?

 

[Cevno]

We'll have to see how you guys do in S.Africa but I don't put a whole lot of stock in them TBF. IMO the Australia of now is superior. At our weakest in the past decade we won an away series against them as they beat us here. They were probably stronger then too.

Would love to see then Ponting's Record in India .Surely he has made himself counted when t mattered most at he "final frontier" as steve waugh dubbed it.

 

[Ikki]

That is true to an extent, but the difference my friend, is that through the 90s(Sachin's best decade) SRT never had the support from either bowling or batting to force more wins.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...panmin1=1+jan+1990;spanval1=span;team=6;templ

If scoring at 55 against the best team in the world in your late teens and early twenties when only one other person in your team is averaging above forty against them and you have a pathetic bowling attack is not pressure, I don't know what pressure is.

Yes, but if people make the argument that scoring runs in a team that is usually in a losing cause has pressure and that the person in the stronger team has others to help him, it can be countered by a different argument. That the person in the weaker team essentially has no pressure to force a victory and can concentrate on scoring runs; whereas the person who fails in a better team always has his faults highlighted to a greater degree as his innings can be the difference in a win or a loss.

Now, my argument never was that Sachin never faced pressure. We have some real genius' here who have a habit of not actually reading what is written. My whole point is that NOW that India are #1, India and Sachin are facing a DIFFERENT kind of pressure. Myself, and I am sure I am not the only one, consider this a big test. For me, it will be interesting to see how Sachin handles it. If he does, he will only grow bigger as a player in my eyes.

If it doesn't make a difference for others, so be it.

 

[GotSpin]

Have you ever been to india? Have you ever been to an indian stadium when Sachin plays?

If not, please stop your lecture on fanship and pressure in india.
When the men in blue step out to play, they not only think about their future position in the team, but also the safety of their family at home should they not perform.

Tell me your set of men in baggy green ever had to do that.

Despite losing a home series in more than a decade, was Ponting booed on his home ground?

Just because Australians don't throw stones at the houses of cricketers doesn't mean Ponting wasn't under immense media scrutiny.

 

[Sanz]

Again, your reading comprehension is taking you adrift.

Usual BS when run out of arguments, next time people get tired of it change your nick again, so that people will start all over again thinking that it was a new user.

How have I shifted the goal posts? I did generalise, but I did not shift the posts. It's true; if Australia don't win, people look to Ponting. It doesn't matter that we lost to India for a decade because India had hardly been our main rivals. If we had lost our #1 position to India because of those losses, with the team that we had then, it'd be a completely different ball-game.

Shifting the goal post because your argument talked about "a match" when I asked about who were these people wanted Ponting's after loss in "a match" you changed it to losing the "#1 spot" or something like that.

If this was about losing #1 spot, I don't even understand why Ponting is compared to SRT. In that case the comparison should have bee made with Dhoni because he is the captain.

Next time do the decent thing and ask instead of going on a tirade. I even clarified what I meant and you still insisted I meant something else. If I had meant it, I'd say I meant it.

I wouldn't need to If you can punctuate your sentences properly.

 

[Ikki]

Usual BS when run out of arguments, next time people get tired of it change your nick again, so that people will start all over again thinking that it was a new user.


Shifting the goal post because your argument talked about "a match" when I asked about who were these people wanted Ponting's after loss in "a match" you changed it to losing the "#1 spot" or something like that.

If this was about losing #1 spot, I don't even understand why Ponting is compared to SRT. In that case the comparison should have bee made with Dhoni because he is the captain.

I wouldn't need to If you can punctuate your sentences properly.

Punctuation is not the problem. You made an accusation and I clearly said I didn't mean what you thought I said and yet you accused me again. So you do have a problem, as the rest of your post illustrates. I've already clarified enough times and have enough experiences with you in other threads to know you're not worth my time.

 

[Sanz]

Just because Australians don't throw stones at the houses of cricketers doesn't mean Ponting wasn't under immense media scrutiny.

That's true, they don't throw stones, they just beat them to death.

 

[Burgey]

Why? Has he ever lead his side to be/stay #1 side against Australia? I think the most difficult thing is the battle for #1, when both teams are going hammer and tongs to win. Not that I think Australia let up when we played India; but it's a different atmosphere, a different challenge. Akin to when we play England, as opposed to playing NZ for example. If there is anything akin to a WC final in Tests, it's a test series to decide the #1 team.

But they've just become number one. What reason would you have for thinking he won't bat well? I don't get this line of logic mate tbh. One can say that about any leading player for a team that's just become number one.

And in any event, he went ok vs Australia on the way to India becoming number one.

All a matter of opinion, but I reckon this isn't a fair type of criteria to base something on mate.

 

[Teja.]

But they've just become number one. What reason would you have for thinking he won't bat well? I don't get this line of logic mate tbh. One can say that about any leading player for a team that's just become number one.

And in any event, he went ok vs Australia on the way to India becoming number one.

All a matter of opinion, but I reckon this isn't a fair type of criteria to base something on mate.

He definitely has started off with a bang too. In the 5 matches India are no.1, SRT averages 88.

 

[GotSpin]

He definitely has started off with a bang too. In the 5 matches India are no.1, SRT averages 88.

Really? That hasn't been mentioned before in this thread either

 

[Ikki]

But they've just become number one. What reason would you have for thinking he won't bat well? I don't get this line of logic mate tbh. One can say that about any leading player for a team that's just become number one.

And in any event, he went ok vs Australia on the way to India becoming number one.

All a matter of opinion, but I reckon this isn't a fair type of criteria to base something on mate.

Where did you get the impression that I think he won't bat well? I have no clue as to whether he will or won't. That's why I am looking forward to seeing how he handles it. You always hear that Ponting/Warne/X scored runs/took wickets and his team was strong, etc, so he never gets that same respect. While others say that being #1 and keeping that consistency is a virtue in itself. Now we'll see how Sachin does.

I have always been more in favour of champion players who do it in champion teams which is why I regularly seem to have a bias towards Australians. If Sachin and India do it I am just applying the same logic. I am saying I will give him more credit for doing it now that they've gone to #1.

What is so unreasonable about that? The sensitivity to the guy is suffocating to be honest.

 

[Sir Alex]

I said Ponting had to face different pressure. For me, a more real pressure in losing the #1 spot. I never said it was just because he was captain, I said it was because he was our best batsman. Someone else brought up captaincy; and to an extent, I agreed. Then you bring up captaincy as if Sachin's captaincy comes with the same responsibilities or pressures as Ponting's. They clearly don't.

But you think by that account Ponting should have lost his captaincy for failing to beat India or the Ashes. No, he won't lose it just for that but will come under extreme scrutiny. It's a testament to the pressure, that Ponting is also one of the most successful captains of all time, yet throughout his tenure he's had many periods where people asked for him to be dropped.

Yeah, lose to india, england and south africa in a matter of months and all you get is a slap on the wrist, despite having underperformed with the bat and head as well.

Some pressure indeed!

Compare that with your house getting burnt down, your relatives rounded up by angry mobs, and your effigy burnt in public not to mention the hundreds of death threats everyday, all this because you'd the misfortune of being a member of a world cup touring party that lost it's first match of the tournament.

Trivial as compared to poor Ricky's guilt driven self created pressure indeed right?

 

[Ikki]

Yeah, lose to india, england and south africa in a matter of months and all you get is a slap on the wrist, despite having underperformed with the bat and head as well.

Some pressure indeed!

Compare that with your house getting burnt down, your relatives rounded up by angry mobs, and your effigy burnt in public not to mention the hundreds of death threats everyday, all this because you'd the misfortune of being a member of a world cup touring party that lost it's first match of the tournament.

Trivial as compared to poor Ricky's guilt driven self created pressure indeed right?

He had lost like half his team. Get some perspective FFS. If he had done that with Hayden, Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist, et al and regularly he'd have been dropped for certain.

The problem with you is you're too busy searching for a reply, not aware that it's irrelevant, dumb and inconsistent.

 

[Sanz]

Punctuation is not the problem. You made an accusation and I clearly said I didn't mean what you thought I said and yet you accused me again. So you do have a problem, as the rest of your post illustrates. I've already clarified enough times and have enough experiences with you in other threads to know you're not worth my time.

You never accepted that there was something wrong with the statement when there definitely was. The statement as it is clearly indicates as if you were claiming it as some sort of fact. And it is so childish for you to come and cry about being accused when half of your posts in this forum are about accusing others of intellectual dishonest.

I have a problem because of the drivel you have been posting all along about certain Indian players and how you continue to incite Indian members on this forum by making trollish comments and cherry picking of stats and at times asking stuff like

"A question to the Indian fans: what will be your thoughts if India go into the deep stages of the next WC and you still don't win a WC with Sachin?"

 

[Teja.]

Just because Australians don't throw stones at the houses of cricketers doesn't mean Ponting wasn't under immense media scrutiny.

Yes, but both were replies to different people, I can't assume Burgey did read the entire thread, so I thought he would find the statistic interesting.

 

[GotSpin]

Yes, but both were replies to different people, I can't assume Burgey did read the entire thread, so I thought he would find the statistic interesting.

Sorry, its these tendulkar threads. Bring out the worst in me