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*Official* England in West Indies

Athlai

Not Terrible
Nah IIRC England have a history of doing well against teams worse than them in ODI cricket just being terrible against the good ones most of the time. Would be surprised if we lost a game against them. We won 3-0 in 03/04 with a team that included Kirtley, Batty, Blackwell and Rikki Clarke (and none of them were even close). We also had no trouble against them in 05 when they beat the Aussies.
Yeah New Zealand also has a great record too, until we recently went to Bangladesh and lost. They're pretty damn good at home now.

Since Jan 2008 Bangladesh have won 7 out of 17 ODIs at home.
Wins:
Ireland
Ireland
Ireland
New Zealand
Sri Lanka
Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe

Losses:
SA
SA
SA
Pakistan
India
NZ
NZ
Zimbabwe (38 runs)
Sri Lanka (2 wickets)
Zimbabwe (2 wickets)

Thanks mostly to:

Shakib Al Hasan 318 runs for 28.90 SR 78.51, 22 wickets @ 18.81 Econ 3.01
Mortaza 28 wickets @ 17.17 Econ 3.43
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
I won't defend him with the gloves (except that he's not as bad as he's lazily made out to be) but his batting is of a high quality and I couldn't give much of a toss whether he's playing in the ODI team or the Test team. In any case I think his ODI batting average isn't reflective of his ability.

He played ok today actually.
I think Prior might have concentration issues, myself. He actually started the test series decently enough and, in fact, I even mentioned on CW that he hadn't dropped any major bollocks yet, which was clearly altogether too much of a fate-tempter and he was as bad as any keeper I've seen in the last test. Didn't actually drop any sitters (although there was a regulation-to-hard chance standing up to Chanders he might've done better with had he not risen so quickly), but his general standard & tidyness were quite horrible. However the fact he can look serviceable makes me think the raw materials are there if he can get his head in order.

Batting really looks the business at times tho, so he's worth sticking with for the summer IMHO. In fact, if his keeping regresses further there's a case for playing him as a specialist bat. Certainly looks to have more about him than Shah or Bopara anyway.

Consider the other performance of your bowlers against an England team (which you repeatedly claim to be talentless) in the Test series:

318
7/0 (abandoned due to unacceptably poor ground)
566/9 declared and 228/9 declared
600/6 declared and 279/2 declared
546/6 declared and 237/6 declared
I'm assuming that six consecutive declared innings with no test wins to show for it is unprecedented? In fact six declarations on the bounce can't have happened too often either, come to that.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah New Zealand also has a great record too, until we recently went to Bangladesh and lost. They're pretty damn good at home now.

Since Jan 2008 Bangladesh have won 7 out of 17 ODIs at home.
Wins:
Ireland
Ireland
Ireland
New Zealand
Sri Lanka
Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe

Losses:
SA
SA
SA
Pakistan
India
NZ
NZ
Zimbabwe (38 runs)
Sri Lanka (2 wickets)
Zimbabwe (2 wickets)

Thanks mostly to:

Shakib Al Hasan 318 runs for 28.90 SR 78.51, 22 wickets @ 18.81 Econ 3.01
Mortaza 28 wickets @ 17.17 Econ 3.43
Yeah it's 2 wins against decent opposition, fair to say they have improved but not a massive sample size. They also struggled against Zimbabwe only recently
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
We're ranked sixth in the world in both forms, and I think that's about fair enough. The team above us in both is Pakistan, and that would be an interesting prospect right now.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah IIRC England have a history of doing well against teams worse than them in ODI cricket just being terrible against the good ones most of the time. Would be surprised if we lost a game against them. We won 3-0 in 03/04 with a team that included Kirtley, Batty, Blackwell and Rikki Clarke (and none of them were even close). We also had no trouble against them in 05 when they beat the Aussies.
England are okay against the really good and bad sides, it's the middling ones they're truly awful against.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
We're ranked sixth in the world in both forms, and I think that's about fair enough. The team above us in both is Pakistan, and that would be an interesting prospect right now.
Seriously doubt Pakistan are better than England in tests. Although noone really knows because they don't play any.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Batting really looks the business at times tho, so he's worth sticking with for the summer IMHO. In fact, if his keeping regresses further there's a case for playing him as a specialist bat. Certainly looks to have more about him than Shah or Bopara anyway.
I tend to agree - he's a good batsman and may well be good enough to play as a specialist. If he does, he has the added advantage of being an excellent fielder, something which can't really be said for Shah.
 

oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
I think it all boils down to the still substantial section of the English public (including knowledgable folk) who still believe England have some sort of god-given right to be the best in the world at whatever we attempt

......... it is our bally empire after all young fella me lad ...........
The nail has been hit firmly on the head.

You have to look at what this team is consistently capable of, let's face it the top 3 would eat them alive right now, in fact India just did, but the memories of English fans are always conveniently short, and minnow bashing is often confused with class.

I reckon you're realistically 7th in ODI's right now, possibly worse in T20's.

In Tests England will always compete at home (though they lost their last 2 main summer tours...looks like the ashes are going too), but they're godawful travellers, I mean their last meaningful overseas series victory was SA back in 2004. It's overseas performances and performances against the best sides that players are ultimately judged on, this is where English players consistently fail. Due to this it's difficult to rate their test side, sure they'll most probably beat Pakistan in England, but Pakistan would almost certainly beat England in Pakistan, however who would do better in India or South Africa, or Australia and Sri Lanka?

Basically England are great minnow bashers that give's their players rather over inflated opinions of themselves, but their records against top test sides are mostly abysmal. It's for this reason that they'll tend to stay around the middle of the pack in terms of standard, it's the systematic improvement of teams such as India and South Africa that is making England look worse.

Sorry if it's all a bit garbled, wrote as I thought.
 
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Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
England's record against Australia and SA over the past 4-5 years is decent, Tests or ODIs despite the odd bit of extreme direness.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Given the wickets Pakistan prepared for the Sri Lanka series, I'd expect a series in Pakistan to be a drawn affair. **** it, I'd expect Ian Bell to have made hay on those pitches.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Word is that 5 Jamaicans are in the WI squad named tomorrow for the return series. Gayle, Taylor, Nash, Richardson and another. Benn likely to keep his place. Baugh might be in for a recall as well as Deonarine who passed 1000 runs today.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Word is that 5 Jamaicans are in the WI squad named tomorrow for the return series. Gayle, Taylor, Nash, Richardson and another. Benn likely to keep his place. Baugh might be in for a recall as well as Deonarine who passed 1000 runs today.
Taylor is out of the IPL due to injury, will he be fit to tour England?

No Jerome and the Windies attack is the definition of pop-gun.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
The nail has been hit firmly on the head.

You have to look at what this team is consistently capable of, let's face it the top 3 would eat them alive right now, in fact India just did, but the memories of English fans are always conveniently short, and minnow bashing is often confused with class.

I reckon you're realistically 7th in ODI's right now, possibly worse in T20's.

In Tests England will always compete at home (though they lost their last 2 main summer tours...looks like the ashes are going too), but they're godawful travellers, I mean their last meaningful overseas series victory was SA back in 2004. It's overseas performances and performances against the best sides that players are ultimately judged on, this is where English players consistently fail. Due to this it's difficult to rate their test side, sure they'll most probably beat Pakistan in England, but Pakistan would almost certainly beat England in Pakistan, however who would do better in India or South Africa, or Australia and Sri Lanka?

Basically England are great minnow bashers that give's their players rather over inflated opinions of themselves, but their records against top test sides are mostly abysmal. It's for this reason that they'll tend to stay around the middle of the pack in terms of standard, it's the systematic improvement of teams such as India and South Africa that is making England look worse.

Sorry if it's all a bit garbled, wrote as I thought.
Haha I'm sure the India fans will be writing their series win in NZ as meaningless as well. Though the point still stands, we are **** travellers
 

Evermind

International Debutant
The nail has been hit firmly on the head.

You have to look at what this team is consistently capable of, let's face it the top 3 would eat them alive right now, in fact India just did, but the memories of English fans are always conveniently short, and minnow bashing is often confused with class.

I reckon you're realistically 7th in ODI's right now, possibly worse in T20's.

In Tests England will always compete at home (though they lost their last 2 main summer tours...looks like the ashes are going too), but they're godawful travellers, I mean their last meaningful overseas series victory was SA back in 2004. It's overseas performances and performances against the best sides that players are ultimately judged on, this is where English players consistently fail. Due to this it's difficult to rate their test side, sure they'll most probably beat Pakistan in England, but Pakistan would almost certainly beat England in Pakistan, however who would do better in India or South Africa, or Australia and Sri Lanka?

Basically England are great minnow bashers that give's their players rather over inflated opinions of themselves, but their records against top test sides are mostly abysmal. It's for this reason that they'll tend to stay around the middle of the pack in terms of standard, it's the systematic improvement of teams such as India and South Africa that is making England look worse.

Sorry if it's all a bit garbled, wrote as I thought.
In recent history, England have a better away record than India. If England are awful travellers, India are worse.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Word is that 5 Jamaicans are in the WI squad named tomorrow for the return series. Gayle, Taylor, Nash, Richardson and another. Benn likely to keep his place. Baugh might be in for a recall as well as Deonarine who passed 1000 runs today.
David Bernard Jr and Narsingh Deonarine in. Morton too apparently.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Two double tons in a row got the attention of the selectors, never mind who it was scored against.
 

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