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*Official* England in West Indies

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Look, the coach has authority over everyone else in WI cricket in that pavillion. He had the sheet in his hand and he's the one who's supposed to be responsible for it. What's there to joke about?
Of course the coach has authority. But how much authority? Authority to over-rule the machinations of the D/L method? Authority to over-rule what the scoreboard is telling the entire ground? Well clearly what the West Indies back-room staff lack in maths ability, they make up for in their deference to "authority".
 

oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
Well you may think that, and a Test average of 48 doubtless qualifies him for that tag in your book. I'm sure you've seen lots of his First Class performances as well, including all those partnerships he's been involved in with his County team-mate Chris Tremlett?

As far as your characterisation of Alec Stewart as a "flat track bully" is concerned, you're absolutely spot-on as ever. His match-winning twin hundreds in Barbados against Walsh and Ambrose and Bishop may have passed you by though.
I think you've misunderstood me, I'm saying Stewart was a quality batsmen, I liked him, he was a hero of mine growing up! I remember watching those twin hundreds, probably the best performance by an English batsmen of the 90's (Atherton's defiance included) and since. I stand by my words though that at the international level Prior's a flat track bully. His average doesn't tell you much, I mean that last hundred was against an absolute joke of an attack, Gayle kept using part timers. TBH I don't hold County performances in very high regard, the standard just isn't anywhere near high enough.
 

martin88

Banned
Of course the coach has authority. But how much authority? Authority to over-rule the machinations of the D/L method? Authority to over-rule what the scoreboard is telling the entire ground? Well clearly what the West Indies back-room staff lack in maths ability, they make up for in their deference to "authority".
I do agree and I think Chris Gayle, as the captain, also had a fair share of responsibility in that goof up.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
172... not brilliant, not awful. Difficult to decide what to aim for in 29 overs, I guess.

Should have got a few more, KP was looking good and Bopara got out when set.

Worst claimed catch I've seen in a while.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Don't know why we are talking about Prior's test batting, he's not bad in that form, but he's an absolute spud in ODI's with bat and gloves.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
I think you've misunderstood me, I'm saying Stewart was a quality batsmen, I liked him, he was a hero of mine growing up! I remember watching those twin hundreds, probably the best performance by an English batsmen of the 90's (Atherton's defiance included) and since. I stand by my words though that at the international level Prior's a flat track bully. His average doesn't tell you much, I mean that last hundred was against an absolute joke of an attack, Gayle kept using part timers. TBH I don't hold County performances in very high regard, the standard just isn't anywhere near high enough.
To be fair, you're right about Prior's last hundred where for some reason Gayle decided not to bowl proper bowlers at him.

As for County performances, I would regard the average 1st Division County attack (bolstered as it is by a great number of overseas players of different types) as better than this West Indies attack by a comfortable margin, particularly on English pitches.

As to Alec Stewart, I was simply responding to your comment that Prior was the best flat track bully since Alec Stewart. Your apparent implication being, of course, that Stewart was a flat track bully.
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
2003 World Cup.
Hmm, that's a bit more of a grey area. South Africa actually faced a ball after they believed they won the game; West Indies merely took the light when they shouldn't have. South Africa actually ended up behind because they got the D/L calculations wrong where the West Indies were behind and then miscalculated whether or not they should take the light. People talk as if they were robbed of certain victory but after playing the game normally throughout and working towards the final target for the entirety of the time they were out there, they were in fact behind.

I think it's more clear cut that England deserved the win than Sri Lanka - I'd still go with "yes" though on both occasions. There's more to the team than the eleven players that run out there.
 
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zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Don't know why we are talking about Prior's test batting, he's not bad in that form, but he's an absolute spud in ODI's with bat and gloves.
I won't defend him with the gloves (except that he's not as bad as he's lazily made out to be) but his batting is of a high quality and I couldn't give much of a toss whether he's playing in the ODI team or the Test team. In any case I think his ODI batting average isn't reflective of his ability.

He played ok today actually.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Prior needs a decent run in the team, there's been far too much chopping and changing with keepers and when he has been the side, he's been all over the order.
 

Steulen

International Regular
172... not brilliant, not awful. Difficult to decide what to aim for in 29 overs, I guess.

Should have got a few more, KP was looking good and Bopara got out when set.

Worst claimed catch I've seen in a while.
172 in one-and-a-half Twenty20 innings is a pretty low score, I'd say.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Prior needs a decent run in the team, there's been far too much chopping and changing with keepers and when he has been the side, he's been all over the order.
Normally I'd agree with you, but the problem I have with this is the fact that he really shouldn't have been picked in this format in the first place.

If he'd been batting well for consecutive seasons in List A cricket and his keeping was of an acceptable standard, I'd support the decision to keep backing him for a while. However, he was basically a desperation pick - someone decided he just 'had the right stuff' for lack of a better explanation to rise to the ocassion most consistently in ODIs than he had in List A cricket. A selection like this deserves less latitude and patience; I think his time is up in ODIs.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
172 in one-and-a-half Twenty20 innings is a pretty low score, I'd say.
Indeed, but they didn't get 15 wickets so it's not really a fair conversion. For example, 270 in two a half Twenty20 games (ie. an ODI) is a low score as well, but it's actually fine in an actual 50-over contest.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Of course the coach has authority. But how much authority? Authority to over-rule the machinations of the D/L method? Authority to over-rule what the scoreboard is telling the entire ground? Well clearly what the West Indies back-room staff lack in maths ability, they make up for in their deference to "authority".
Someone has the sheet in their hand and they're supposed to trust that over the scoreboard which could be wrong? And maths ability wasn't necessary in that instance, what you mean to say is that all of them are illiterate.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
I won't defend him with the gloves (except that he's not as bad as he's lazily made out to be) but his batting is of a high quality and I couldn't give much of a toss whether he's playing in the ODI team or the Test team. In any case I think his ODI batting average isn't reflective of his ability.

He played ok today actually.
The problem i have with him is that his List A record is pretty damn poor as well and that's over 174 matches so i'd say thats a good representation of his talent in OD cricket. His FC is good, and he's started his test batting career well, but he's got a poor ODI record and a poor List A record. There are keepers with better List A batting records (including one in the squad) and when his keeping is as bad as it is, you have to wonder why they persist with him apart from a misguided preference to have the same keeper for both forms.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Hmm, that's a bit more of a grey area. South Africa actually faced a ball after they believed they won the game; West Indies merely took the light when they shouldn't have. South Africa actually ended up behind because they got the D/L calculations wrong where the West Indies were behind and then miscalculated whether or not they should take the light. People talk as if they were robbed of certain victory but after playing the game normally throughout and working towards the final target for the entirety of the time they were out there, they were in fact behind.

I think it's more clear cut that England deserved the win than Sri Lanka - I'd still go with "yes" though on both occasions. There's more to the team than the eleven players that run out there.
Fair enough but I wouldn't say England deserved the win. Match could have gone either way.
 

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