*Official* South Africa in West Indies

[GraemeSmith]

This was a terrible terrible test match. This whole series is pointless. More matches among evenly matched teams please.

 

[Woodster]

This was a poor Test match, largely due to the flat, slow, lifeless nature of the pitch which had no signs of producing an even battle between bat and ball. WI were most pleased to simply hang in there and ensure they weren't beaten, understandable for a side with such a poor record of late, and SA didn't have the kind of mystery spinner that can occasionally win you games on these tracks that should never be seen in Test cricket.

Credit though to WI for coming back after the thrashing in the opening Test, they could still have capitulated in this game, but fought hard to reach 546 and earn a draw. That said, if there was ever a pitch where they could extend the game to 5 days, it was this one.

 

[GotSpin]

I agree G-S, i think he's a fantastic find and i believe the more he plays at this level the better he'll get, Gibbo will have him working on all sorts of deliveries like the doosra, flipper etc, after his performances they would be crazy to drop him, though i admit dropping Benn right now would be harsh too but Shilly is the future so i'd stick with him tbh.

I'm just happy we didn't get embarrassed again, it's like the Australian tour all over really, killed in the first Test and fight back strong in the second Test, i just hope we can really put on a show in Barbados now, Barath is back, Rampaul will be replaced (i hope Andre Russell gets a chance), and Ramdin's position might come into question too!!, if we beat South Africa we go sixth in the rankings so Gibbo would have done well.

Yeah I felt his only weakness was to dart the ball in. Looks so much better when he gives it some flight. Far better long term option than Benn but he can't be dropped either yet until Shilly starts taking a bag full of wickets

 

[GotSpin]

This was a poor Test match, largely due to the flat, slow, lifeless nature of the pitch which had no signs of producing an even battle between bat and ball. WI were most pleased to simply hang in there and ensure they weren't beaten, understandable for a side with such a poor record of late, and SA didn't have the kind of mystery spinner that can occasionally win you games on these tracks that should never be seen in Test cricket.

Credit though to WI for coming back after the thrashing in the opening Test, they could still have capitulated in this game, but fought hard to reach 546 and earn a draw. That said, if there was ever a pitch where they could extend the game to 5 days, it was this one.

Agree to an extent. On the other hand, however, Windies were the in the best place to potentially force a favourable result but decided to take the safe route.

 

[Woodster]

Agree to an extent. On the other hand, however, Windies were the in the best place to potentially force a favourable result but decided to take the safe route.

Yes due I would think to a lack of self-belief, satisfied that a draw against to SA is a step in the right direction. They must build on this at Bridgetown, but you get the feeling if it is a slightly more sporting track, they once again will be shown who's in charge.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yes due I would think to a lack of self-belief, satisfied that a draw against to SA is a step in the right direction. They must build on this at Bridgetown, but you get the feeling if it is a slightly more sporting track, they once again will be shown who's in charge.

To be honest though we had them in all sorts of trouble in the first Test only to throw it away with the bat, if South Africa were missing five key players and we were at full strength do you think they would have won that Test? i very much doubt it, WI missing Barath, Sarwan, Roach, Taylor and Edwards was always gonna hurt us in the end.

 

[Howsie]

Erm are you Mike's "spokesman" now? i'm sure he can talk for himself , furthermore of cause Dowlin's average is gonna be better at this stage!!, Dowlin was probably playing for Guyana before Kraigg was born!! ,

My argument was simple, Dowlin simply isn't good enough and he's not even a proper opening batsman either, so why not give a kid who was on fire and made good scores against a team who've beaten the likes of India recently? you can "doubt" all you want but there's a reason he's already in the A-team right now, he's a serious talent and the selectors are watching him closely.

Ah, thats a new one "He has a better average because he's been playing for longer" Usually it's the other way round, but no that makes perfect sense....

As for why you wouldn't select Brathwaite for the test team right now, just check out his England tour with the A team so far.

 

[GotSpin]

I think it's fairly clear he shouldn't be making his debut for at least 2-3 years unless he starts setting the domestic FC scene with consistent centuries. Lil bravo a better prospect atm

 

[popepouri]

To be honest though we had them in all sorts of trouble in the first Test only to throw it away with the bat, if South Africa were missing five key players and we were at full strength do you think they would have won that Test? i very much doubt it, WI missing Barath, Sarwan, Roach, Taylor and Edwards was always gonna hurt us in the end.

I think this says quite a bit regarding a fitness gap in the West Windies or the players aren't taking the right measures to not get injured. I can't remember a time when SA missed that many first team players.

E.g. Steyn after every match thats 5 ice baths for a minute to loosen the joints.

 

[marc71178]

I think it's fairly clear he shouldn't be making his debut for at least 2-3 years unless he starts setting the domestic FC scene with consistent centuries. Lil bravo a better prospect atm

But still behind at least 4 others for 3 middle order batting slots.

 

[GotSpin]

But still behind at least 4 others for 3 middle order batting slots.

Yeah for sure. A couple years in FC could do the trick though. Potential =/ runs so we'll have to wait and see

 

[Hurricane]

Dowlin getting a few lucky knocks doesn't mean jack to me, i knew he was rubbish and people like Mike tried to act like he was Barath #2!!, he might get himself a few runs today on this track but he's a waste of space imo and we would have done better with Dwayne Bravo or Deonarine opening instead.

I am glad that you rate Barath so highly that you compare other players against him. But is it only me who thinks you are judging this young man too quickly. He only has 4 innings. I certainly hope he becomes a strong member for the Windies - but IMHO it is too soon to use him as some sort of benchmark. He only averages 34 in his 4 innings. If he had scored a century in all 4 innings then I could see all the fuss.

Maybe in your defence you are judging him on his FC career.

 

[Hurricane]

To be honest though we had them in all sorts of trouble in the first Test only to throw it away with the bat, if South Africa were missing five key players and we were at full strength do you think they would have won that Test? i very much doubt it, WI missing Barath, Sarwan, Roach, Taylor and Edwards was always gonna hurt us in the end.

Yeah this is a decent argument. I know that NZ always hurts when a key player is injured let alone 5. But that being said - I do question Barath being on this list given my earlier post and that surely he can't be a key player to the side after 4 innings.

On the Braithwaite question. Let him get more experience is my thought and vote.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

My argument was simple, Dowlin simply isn't good enough and he's not even a proper opening batsman either, so why not give a kid who was on fire and made good scores against a team who've beaten the likes of India recently? you can "doubt" all you want but there's a reason he's already in the A-team right now, he's a serious talent and the selectors are watching him closely.

I think Gibson and the selectors have a real tough job on over the next few years.Yes there are some talented youngsters coming through in West Indies but they need to get it right as to when they are put into the test side as if they get it wrong they might ruin the kids career.Dowlin probably isn't good enough but he is only a temporary stopgap with Barath out so don't need to rush Brathwaite in.

The only criticism i'd have of WI recently is not picking the young fast bowler for the A team as he looked as prepared as Brathwaite to step up and was ignored.Either WI have a ruck of promising bowlers or somebody messed up.

 

[Briony]

To be honest though we had them in all sorts of trouble in the first Test only to throw it away with the bat, if South Africa were missing five key players and we were at full strength do you think they would have won that Test? i very much doubt it, WI missing Barath, Sarwan, Roach, Taylor and Edwards was always gonna hurt us in the end.

Barath is promising but unproven, Roach hasn't really scared the saffers to date, Sarwan is a class player but hasn't been in the greatest form, while Taylor hasn't exactly looked mega threatening of late either. Edwards as a long-term injury has to be discounted. Parnell for instance, would have been a first choice ahead of Tsotsobe if available. It was a spinners track in Trinidad and the spinners did well but SA has been reasonable at extricating itself from tough positions in recent years in the test arena so we don't know if Taylor and Roach would have made a huge difference. Steyn and Morkel did well to crush their batting on a pitch which didn't really suit them. Steyn's done that a couple of times in India too, so it's not surprising that we're seeing pitches prepared in an endeavour to blunt him.

 

[shivfan]

Yesterday was, from what I saw, hugely dissapointing for any fan. While I can sort of understand Shivfan's points, I still think that it is poor form to play cricket that sluggishly, especially given that the pitch they were batting on was equally as flat as the Day 3 pitch where West Indies had rattled aong at around four an over and also that, in all honestly, there's next to no chance of West Indies losing this test.

In which case, it's also poor form that Smith instructed his left-arm spinner to bowl over the wicket to the right hander, pitching the ball way outside leg. And it's poor form to instruct your pacer to bowl a mile outside offstump.

It takes two to tango....

If Shiv and Bravo had gone for the ball, nicked a catch behind, they would've come in for a lot of criticism.

In addition, none of the teams scored at four an over. The Saffer first innings was 3.5, the WI was 3, and the SA second innings was 2.5. Remember, it was Shiv and Bravo batting, not Greenidge and Lloyd....

 

[shivfan]

Dowlin getting a few lucky knocks doesn't mean jack to me, i knew he was rubbish and people like Mike tried to act like he was Barath #2!!, he might get himself a few runs today on this track but he's a waste of space imo and we would have done better with Dwayne Bravo or Deonarine opening instead.

Sad as this may sound, Dowlin is Barath's number two....

He failed, and I'm not surprised. But I have said that he deserved a chance, given his early results in test cricket.

Who would you have played as opener instead of Dowlin, given that Barath is injured? Aside from Bravo or Deonarine - I mean, serious options. The position of opening partner to Gayle has been a case of musical chairs....

 

[shivfan]

This was a poor Test match, largely due to the flat, slow, lifeless nature of the pitch which had no signs of producing an even battle between bat and ball. WI were most pleased to simply hang in there and ensure they weren't beaten, understandable for a side with such a poor record of late, and SA didn't have the kind of mystery spinner that can occasionally win you games on these tracks that should never be seen in Test cricket.

Credit though to WI for coming back after the thrashing in the opening Test, they could still have capitulated in this game, but fought hard to reach 546 and earn a draw. That said, if there was ever a pitch where they could extend the game to 5 days, it was this one.

I agree with all your points here....

1) It was a poor Test match.

2) A large portion of the blame has to go to the pitch, which made it nigh impossible for a result to be achieved.

3) WI have happy to hang on for a draw, and given their run of losses of late, that's understandable.

4) Tracks like Warner Park should never be seen in Test cricket.

5) Credit to the WI for not capitulating, especially the 220-run partnership between Nash and Shiv when they lost three wickets.

 

[shivfan]

I think Gibson and the selectors have a real tough job on over the next few years.Yes there are some talented youngsters coming through in West Indies but they need to get it right as to when they are put into the test side as if they get it wrong they might ruin the kids career.Dowlin probably isn't good enough but he is only a temporary stopgap with Barath out so don't need to rush Brathwaite in.

The only criticism i'd have of WI recently is not picking the young fast bowler for the A team as he looked as prepared as Brathwaite to step up and was ignored.Either WI have a ruck of promising bowlers or somebody messed up.

Yes, one of HOlder or Gabriel should've been on the tour of England with the A team....

And as Brathwaite has found out on that tour, batting can be difficult when you make that step up in class. His batting in England hasn't produced a shed-load of runs. I think he needs a full season for Barbados before we can even talk about him as a potential Test opening batsman.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Aren't they both in the development side right now? Holder and Gabriel I mean. I don't see what either, and Gabriel in particular, have done to be thrust into 'A' team duty. If talk is true, West Indies will have a consistent 'A' team programme in future, so there will be opportunities there. But if this development programme is the real deal, this is the right process.