Who is the greatest test spinner of all time?

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Was he not actually that slow?

He was famously quick for a spinner.

 

[the big bambino]

Was he not actually that slow?

In the same way you wouldn't call underwood matt parkinson slow.

 

[Nintendo]

In the same way you wouldn't call underwood matt parkinson slow.

Maybe I'm remembering the clip wrong. I'll double check it when I get home. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[the big bambino]

Maybe I'm remembering the clip wrong. I'll double check it when I get home. Thanks for the heads up.

No probs but you see modern spinners getting criticised for bowling too quickly and are more threatening when they slow it up. Bowling quickly for a spinner is often seen as defensive though you'd understand why they would. Btw you might be thinking Grimmett.

 

[Chin Music]

He was famously quick for a spinner.

Apparently Bradman referred to him as bowling near medium pace. He also described O'Reilly as the best bowler he ever faced. Some compliment.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Apparently Bradman referred to him as bowling near medium pace. He also described O'Reilly as the best bowler he ever faced and to have ever seen. Some compliment.

 

[Migara]

I would assume that in an attack like sri lanka the best batsmen would ideally play murali out and look to score off the other bowlers, no? So i'de assume his average and sr would be higher vs better batsmen but his econ would be lower. Would be nice if the above post had it sorted by average but from a brief look it seems like this isn't the case? Murali had a far worse average vs ponting, tendulkar and sehwag then he did vaughan but vaughan also struggled to score off of him. Maybe the way i'm thinking about this is more a limited overs way of doing things or i've just got a bad sample from the above post. Boundary percentage may also be an interesting metric, you'de assume that if the better batsmen are playing him out they'de just be looking to move the strike over vs him rather than hitting boundaries.

The difference is when you have McGrath, he gets rid of Lara so there is no scoring off Warne.

Good players of spin don't mind a spinner bowling. They will play the ball, not the bowler. So they may score less, but will not get out. Not getting out will accumulate over time to give huger runs per dismissal values. However when you have another bowler who will get rid of the nuisance, albeit low there will be no accumulation over time.

 

[Migara]

Muralis stats padded by Bangladesh and Zimbabwe

Warne is so great, there is no comparable spinner In the world today with that diverse skill set- flipper, wrong un, zooter etc . Whereas Murali has similar in Ashwin, Jadeja, Shakib, etc. All three have the carrom ball, the arm ball, slider etc.

We are through this a long time back. Quality of Murali's wickets on average is more than or equal that of Warne's.

I just split in half reading Murali-Ashwin segment.

 

[Migara]

I heard a point of view that Warne and Murali were so well performed because the batsmen of that era had little experience facing spinners of their quality. Had they faced O'Reilly, Grimmett, Verity they would have struggled just as they struggled against Warne and Murali.

I have to disagree. The quality of spin was far greater in their era. Kumble and Saqlain, who would be ATGs of their own in any other era, Mustaq Ahmed, MacGill, Hogg, Kaneria, Herath and Vettori were contempories of them. So I's argue 90s batsmen were the best prepared against spin than any era (other than England, West indies and South Africa)

 

[Migara]

t I've heard O'Reilly was VERY slow

O'Riely was fast. Kumble or Chandrashekar fast. When you have those raw talents, you can succeed in any era. He will find Tendulkar, Sidhu and Azhar mighty challenging to bowl than what he used to bowl to, but in no way he would be a walk over. He would be a seriously intimidating bowler in any era.

Perhaps you are referring to Grimmett may be. Grimmett was slow. It didn't need 90s Indians to take him to the cleaners. FC de Saram, playing Aussies in 1934 took Grimmet apart despite Grimmet getting a 7 for.

 

[Burgey]

Maybe I'm remembering the clip wrong. I'll double check it when I get home. Thanks for the heads up.

You might have been thinking of Grimmett?

 

[the big bambino]

I have to disagree. The quality of spin was far greater in their era. Kumble and Saqlain, who would be ATGs of their own in any other era, Mustaq Ahmed, MacGill, Hogg, Kaneria, Herath and Vettori were contempories of them. So I's argue 90s batsmen were the best prepared against spin than any era (other than England, West indies and South Africa)

Herath, Kaniera, Vettori and MacGill bowled predominantly in the following decade and Saqlain's figures somewhat high for a sub con bowler. Sneaking Hogg in was pretty funny too.

 

[trundler]

Herath, Kaniera, Vettori and MacGill bowled predominantly in the following decade and Saqlain's figures somewhat high for a sub con bowler. Sneaking Hogg in was pretty funny too.

They're not really. Kumble, Chandra, Gupte all average a tick under 30 and Pakistani pitches are far more unforgiving.

 

[the big bambino]

Muralis stats padded by Bangladesh and Zimbabwe

Warne is so great,

Significantly. Plus he had significant holes v India and Australia. Whereas Warne only really failed against India. Murali was also greatly assisted in home conditions whereas Warne had to contend with the least beneficial home conditions any spin bowler could have. Warne a considerably better bowler than Murali.

 

[the big bambino]

They're not really. Kumble, Chandra, Gupte all average a tick under 30 and Pakistani pitches are far more unforgiving.

Qadir and Iqbal Qasim didn't have problems. But yours is a good comparison with the other bowlers mentioned.

 

[Chin Music]

Significantly. Plus he had significant holes v India and Australia. Whereas Warne only really failed against India. Murali was also greatly assisted in home conditions whereas Warne had to contend with the least beneficial home conditions any spin bowler could have. Warne a considerably better bowler than Murali.

I don't know about significantly better but I do take the point that Murali benefited by playing a whole load of games v Bang/Zim that did help his overall stats. The point about often playing at Brisbane/Perth is fair enough, but also Warne never had to bowl against the Australian test match batting lineup either.

 

[the big bambino]

I don't know about significantly better but I do take the point that Murali benefited by playing a whole load of games v Bang/Zim that did help his overall stats. The point about often playing at Brisbane/Perth is fair enough, but also Warne never had to bowl against the Australian test match batting lineup either.

That’s the old Richards never faced his own bowling argument. The retort is they never bowled to him either.

 

[trundler]

Qadir and Iqbal Qasim didn't have problems. But yours is a good comparison with the other bowlers mentioned.

Neutral umpires probably explain that. Pakistani pitches in Saqlain's career were also much more batting friendly. Herath averaged 28 on some friendly pitches too. In any case Saqlain's record isn't modest by SC standards at all.

 

[the big bambino]

Neutral umpires probably explain that. Pakistani pitches in Saqlain's career were also much more batting friendly. Herath averaged 28 on some friendly pitches too. In any case Saqlain's record isn't modest by SC standards at all.

I like saqlain and saw him quite often out here and he was impressive. I’ve just seen there is little difference in his home and away so didn’t benefit greatly from home grounds advantage, if at all. These are fair points you make about him and square with what I’ve seen of him.

 

[Migara]

Significantly. Plus he had significant holes v India and Australia. Whereas Warne only really failed against India. Murali was also greatly assisted in home conditions whereas Warne had to contend with the least beneficial home conditions any spin bowler could have. Warne a considerably better bowler than Murali.

We have done with this too. Murali has failed in Australia and in India. Warne has failed in India, vs India in Australia and West indies. If you count "holes" Warne has more.