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Trescothick out of Ashes

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
silentstriker said:
Perhaps not, but I do know what a drama queen is. I can recognize one of my own.
There's only one tool involved in this thread and it's you, you really need a good kick up the behind with some of your antiquated views.
 

Poker Boy

State Vice-Captain
It won't surprise anyone to know G Boycott has an opinion - he wrote in the Telegraph that Trescothick is the first victim of the international cricket schedule and there will be more to come (not just from England). I don't agree with him - I think its probably to do with his private life - and remember when this started in India england had had a break from cricket. As for thereplacement I'd have picked Shah on the strength of an excellent Test debut under pressure in India - maybe Fletcher wanted a left-hander.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
GeraintIsMyHero said:
There's only one tool involved in this thread and it's you
Yes, because Trescothic isn't posting in this thread. Otherwise, there'd be two.

Seriously though, he needs to either retire or start playing. This stress related illness excuse to fly in and out of tours is just stupid.

I found it telling that he was all roaring to go until he had two failures against Aussie bowlers and magically this 'illness' returned.
 

Mahindinho

State Vice-Captain
Pity Tresco's out, but well, if he's not quite right mentally, Test cricket's the last thing he wants to put himself through.

Personally, I'd not be surprised if Cook ended up the highest run-scorer in the Ashes. He's not exactly a flair player like Owais Shah, but he's got an absolutely ice-cool temperament.

Bell's got something to prove - as long as he gets an innings early on, he'll be fine.

I just hope Panesar gets a game or three. If I can't have Read, I want Monty!
 

Woodster

International Captain
I think if a player scores in excess of 1000 runs in his last 2-3 seasons at an extremely good average, it isnt exactly 'seeing something in him'.
So we're now up to 3 seasons! in that case, I agree. Still not sure the ones that were called up had an extremely good average.

If you are to base your selection around picking players purely based on excellent overall FC records then you end up picking the Hicks and Crawleys and basically any other 30 something year olds. The logical thing to do then is to pick players who have had success over the last couple of seasons, and who have obviously improved their games since they started. Players like Key, Shah, Strauss, Bell, Collingwood are all clear cut cases of this, and thus they are obiously not controversial selections. However when the likes of Plunkett, Batty etc are picked despite never having a half decent season, you really wonder what Fletcher has been smoking.
Think you are going off the actual point a little now. To throw another name into the hat, Simon Jones was plucked from relative obscurity into the international set up, and when he is fit, is a crucial member of the side.

I think what has aided our selection, and hasn't been mentioned is the Academy. Where Englands management have obviously earmarked players for international futures, despite not setting the county scene alight. Fletcher also chooses players on attitude and character (obviously if the ability is there).

Players like Key, Shah, Strauss, Bell, Collingwood are all clear cut cases of this, and thus they are obiously not controversial selections.
Don't remember saying they were controversial selections.
 
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PY

International Coach
silentstriker said:
Yes, because Trescothic isn't posting in this thread. Otherwise, there'd be two.

Seriously though, he needs to either retire or start playing. This stress related illness excuse to fly in and out of tours is just stupid.

I found it telling that he was all roaring to go until he had two failures against Aussie bowlers and magically this 'illness' returned.
Or he wanted to play so badly that he thought he'd recovered and he's found out that he hasn't after he's been there a while? The failures may well have caused it because he might have taken it to heart and been unable to get over them due to his illness. He's obviously had no problems with it before as he's had bad runs (almost cracked a bad joke about curries then but though better of it :p) of form and still returned enough for 5000+ Test runs.

I can't decide whether you're being insensitive on purpose to flame or just being ignorant of other people's problems?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Mister Wright said:
Good call imo. His record is amazing.

Astounded he didn't play a game in the CT. :-O
I don't understand Fletcher's comments about there being enough people in the squad who can cover the opener spot - by my reckoning, there's nobody apart from Strauss and Cook.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
marc71178 said:
I don't understand Fletcher's comments about there being enough people in the squad who can cover the opener spot - by my reckoning, there's nobody apart from Strauss and Cook.
I'm guessing (and this doesn't mean I agree) he was referring to Bell.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
When did Fletch make these comments? Seems as Joyce can open.

silentstriker said:
I can't decide whether you're being insensitive on purpose to flame or just being ignorant of other people's problems?
I don't think he's flaming, SS is better than that. I mean this as respectfully as possible, but I get an over-machoistic (that a word?!) impression of SS sometimes. The comments about Brett Lee's kid "popping out" being nowhere near as important as an Ashes test also spring to mind.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Woodster said:
So we're now up to 3 seasons! in that case, I agree. Still not sure the ones that were called up had an extremely good average.
No but i was referring to Strauss in that case and most of the other players in the England side, nearly all of whom had 2-3 seasons of domestic success before selection. Strauss scored nearly 4000 runs at an average of 48 in 3 years prior to his selection, which is 'extremely good' in anyones book. Paul Collingwood in his 3 full seasons before the tour of Pakistan, averaged in excess of 50. Ian Bell in his 2 seasons(or 1.5 seasons) averaged in excess of 50(and this included a tour of SL with the A side). The same can be done with Owais Shah and Robert Key or Mark Butcher before he was selected in 01. The point is that none of these players have fascinating overall FC records, but they were picked because their most recent domestic records are very good and hence deserved places in the side.


Woodster said:
Think you are going off the actual point a little now. To throw another name into the hat, Simon Jones was plucked from relative obscurity into the international set up, and when he is fit, is a crucial member of the side. .
No Simon Jones before he was picked in 2002, took 40 wickets in that season at a relatively good average. More importantly he had impressed everybody on his visit to the Academy the year earlier. Given how many bowlers were actually impressing at the time it came as no surprise that he was picked. and his record since 2002 has actually been extremely good, even if part of it has been ruined by injury.

Woodster said:
I think what has aided our selection, and hasn't been mentioned is the Academy. Where Englands management have obviously earmarked players for international futures, despite not setting the county scene alight. Fletcher also chooses players on attitude and character (obviously if the ability is there).
Oh yes and that aspect is definetly something i agree with. However when he picks players just for their attitude despite not having the ability- Plunkett for example then you have to question his logic. If you choose between 2 players both with extremely good FC records in the recent past, but one obviously having a better attitude, then i have no problem with that policy. But when you go for players purely based on attitude and the fact that they can bowl at 85+ mph then you are being foolish.



Woodster said:
Don't remember saying they were controversial selections.
But you argued that they most of the players in the England side dont have excellent county records, and credited Fletcher for picking them. Im just saying that any selector would have done the same, because they have good recent FC records.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
GeraintIsMyHero said:
I don't think he's flaming, SS is better than that. I mean this as respectfully as possible, but I get an over-machoistic (that a word?!) impression of SS sometimes.
Don't mind me, I'm probably just overcompensating for some other shortcomings. :laugh:

In seriousness, maybe its overboard accusing him from being a tool and I truly do feel sympathy for someone with a legitimate problem. But I just don't like his constant in and out of the team.

But, I make no apologies re: Brett Lee. It's the ASHES man!
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Mahindinho said:
Personally, I'd not be surprised if Cook ended up the highest run-scorer in the Ashes. He's not exactly a flair player like Owais Shah, but he's got an absolutely ice-cool temperament.
Owais Shah is a bit like Pietersen IMO. From what we saw from him in India he likes to engage in banter with the bowler, it makes him play better. I guess you could compare him a bit to Javed Miandad as well, but in Australia with all the sledging going around, he would probably have been the best player to handle it. Oh and hes also known to be one of the better players of spin in England. This coupled with his debut in India would have been enough to have gone with him over Joyce, but i can understand the logic of picking Joyce because hes apparently more versatile.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
silentstriker said:
Yes, because Trescothic isn't posting in this thread. Otherwise, there'd be two.

Seriously though, he needs to either retire or start playing. This stress related illness excuse to fly in and out of tours is just stupid.

I found it telling that he was all roaring to go until he had two failures against Aussie bowlers and magically this 'illness' returned.
So youd rather have him play for the entire tour and fail miserably as well as get even more depressed then?
The failures probably confirmed something that he already thought about, that he simply wasnt able to focus on his game and he still hadnt gotten over his condition. Instead of criticising him for leaving how about crediting him for not costing England the Ashes by playing through the whole thing? Seriously, him playing 2 warm ups and leaving isnt exactly the worst thing that could have happened to England.
 

howardj

International Coach
Ridiculous article from Boycott and a similar line being run by Gilchrist that Trescothick's plight is all down to the amount of cricket being played. Clearly, when a grown man sobs in a toilet for two hours there's clearly something seriously wrong. To say it's all down to scheduling is to trivialise his condition. I wondered how long it would take Gilchrist, no doubt incredibly jaded after a five month holiday, to start complaining about the amount of cricket being played.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Im just saying that any selector would have done the same, because they have good recent FC records
Yes, they had decent FC records, exactly what I was saying, they didnt stand out. They have since improved as players in the Test set up.

No Simon Jones before he was picked in 2002, took 40 wickets in that season at a relatively good average. More importantly he had impressed everybody on his visit to the Academy the year earlier.
When you say NO Jones wasn't picked from relative obscurity, are you referring to the 2001 season where he took 17 wickets at 52.17 ???? Or when he took 34 wickets by the end of the season in 2002 (His debut was in July!) at an average of 27.91. (10 wicks in 2000 at 37.40!) If these are extremely good stats at the time, I am one thankful England supporter that you have nothing to do with selection!!

We are obviously not going to agree, I agree that some of the candidates had decent FC records, but my point (again) is they were not exactly breaking the door down and setting the Championship alight! Thinks thats fair.
 

UncleTheOne

U19 Captain
Joyce in? Hmmmm. Seems England are just setting up the return of the messiah Michael Vaughan to make a return to the scene of his greatest batting triumphs.
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
howardj said:
Ridiculous article from Boycott and a similar line being run by Gilchrist that Trescothick's plight is all down to the amount of cricket being played. Clearly, when a grown man sobs in a toilet for two hours there's clearly something seriously wrong. To say it's all down to scheduling is to trivialise his condition. I wondered how long it would take Gilchrist, no doubt incredibly jaded after a five month holiday, to start complaining about the amount of cricket being played.
Completely, completely agree. I read Boyc's article last night and my eyes started rolling immediately.
 

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