The Aamer Situation

[andyc]

Part of it is how great an impact a particular punishment - and everyone's talking about a life ban - would have on the individual. If the player in question were a no-hoper, a life ban would mean the loss of an average-to-crap career, one might almost say an act of mercy (plenty of England players of 1980s/1990s vintage spring to mind). In the case of Amir, it could mean the loss of vastly more. He has the potential to have a stellar career and to go on to become an all-time great. And so what appears to be the same punishment would, in fact, be far harsher on Amir than on the no-hoper.

Another part of it is the long-term impact that this will have on Pakistan cricket. Pakistan cricket is already in a whole heap of trouble (no home matches etc) and Amir is a massively important figure in its survival and development. If his career were to proceed and reach fulfilment his influence could last for a decade or two. Yes we could ban his arse off if we wanted to, but it's not going to do much good for a cricketing nation that currently needs all the help it can get.

But surely Pakistan don't need a player in their ranks who can't be trusted? If it's the welfare of Pakistani cricket we're worried about, we should never have banned Afridi for biting the ball, and Asif, Butt and everyone else should get off scott free as well. People need to be punished for what they've done wrong; there needs to be a deterrent for these sorts of things.

 

[benchmark00]

The 'situation' is what I refer to my groinal region as. This is more of a ****storm.

 

[zaremba]

But surely Pakistan don't need a player in their ranks who can't be trusted? If it's the welfare of Pakistani cricket we're worried about, we should never have banned Afridi for biting the ball, and Asif, Butt and everyone else should get off scott free as well. People need to be punished for what they've done wrong; there needs to be a deterrent for these sorts of things.

Yep, I agree that punishment and deterrence are two of the factors that should be taken into account. So perhaps should incapacitation - ie preventing the wrongdoers from having the opportunity to repeat their actions. But so should fairness and proportionality. Lots of things to take into account. Not all of these factors pull in the same direction.

As for taking the broader interests of the game into account, people are rightly invoking this in order to support the idea of harsh, deterrent-heavy sentences. I'm pointing out that the broader interests of the game might also pull in the other direction, because summarily terminating the career of Pakistan's brightest young talent might not have an entirely positive effect.

 

[sledger]

The 'situation' is what I refer to my groinal region as. This is more of a ****storm.

I hear that's a very messy situation tbh.

 

[zaremba]

The 'situation' is what I refer to my groinal region as. This is more of a ****storm.

What's your view of the Shoaib Akhtar situation?

 

[benchmark00]

What's your view of the Shoaib Akhtar situation?

Simply a warts and all exhibition of how a talented sportsman can lose his way.

 

[Himannv]

As soon as Aamer burst onto the scene I thought he was one of those who had huge potential and together with Asif they would become a force.

At that time however, Asif was always involved in something of other and I thought it was unlikely that they would partner each other much. However the series against England gave me some sort of hopes that they would be a real force in a cricket world that is rapidly getting deprived of quality fast bowlers.

If he was involved in this, I have to say I'm hugely disappointed as I've become quite a fan of his now. Having said that, its not completely surprising either. Pakistan have an awful reputation of being involved in all sorts of underhanded stuff. I mean who the hell bites balls ffs..!! Aamer and Asif could easily have been the next Waqar and Wasim but I think its highly unlikely that these two could have much of a career in cricket anymore, and thats even if they manage to wheedle their way out of this particular allegation.

 

[benchmark00]

As soon as Aamer burst onto the scene I thought he was one of those who had huge potential and together with Asif they would become a force.

At that time however, Asif was always involved in something of other and I thought it was unlikely that they would partner each other much. However the series against England gave me some sort of hopes that they would be a real force in a cricket world that is rapidly getting deprived of quality fast bowlers.

If he was involved in this, I have to say I'm hugely disappointed as I've become quite a fan of his now. Having said that, its not completely surprising either. Pakistan have an awful reputation of being involved in all sorts of underhanded stuff. I mean who the hell bites balls ffs..!! Aamer and Asif could easily have been the next Waqar and Wasim but I think its highly unlikely that these two could have much of a career in cricket anymore, and thats even if they manage to wheedle their way out of this particular allegation.

 

[angad]

Former Pakistan coach, Geoff Lawson has expressed sympathy for Amir.

"For me, it would be a great tragedy if a young man such as Amir, a shining light of hope, has been led astray, Pakistan's socio-economic situation needed to be taken into account before rushing in to judge the alleged actions of its cricketers."

"We must remember that we are judging these guys by the standards of our own country, when their situations are vastly different, The first time I met Mohammad Amir was when he was 16, coming to an Under-19s camp. He comes from a small village near the Swat valley and was delayed by three hours because the Taliban had closed the highway. That doesn't happen in this country."

"We should consider that a cricketer might not be thinking of personal gain but of getting money to buy a generator for his village because they don't have electricity."

"The Pakistan Cricket Board chairman Ijaz Butt is not a leader, he should not have the job, he is incapable."

Read full story - Mohammad Amir earns sympathy amid scandal

 

[sledger]

Must say I have some sympathy for Amir. If he has been genuinely lead astray then that is amassive shame, and really it would be awful for someone showing that he potentially could be one of the greatest ever fast bowlers to have his career stamped out so early on. But rules are there to be obeyed I suppose.

As for the rest of them though, Salman Butt really should know better, so although I like him he can have no complaints if he is found guilty and bites the bullet. Nobody will miss Kamran Akmal apart from the hilarity he brings with his performances, so he should bite the bullet as well. And good as he is Asif has had enough chances and been involved in enough controversy, so if found guilty this really has to be the final straw for him surely.

 

[Smudge]

... and ban.

It was an interesting sideshow from Tim for the time being...




(still sticking with that conspiracy theory).

 

[Burgey]

You saying Kevin Pietersen bites balls?

 

[Top_Cat]

I do actually have some sympathy for the guy because it's hard not to, but his mere presence in any future international cricket will do untold damage to the sport.

Chicken Littleism, tbh. It survived captains from Pakistan and South Africa (with an Indian captain implicated) being charged and convicted not of spot betting but fixing whole matches, infecting the teams in which they played and corrupting others including the young fellas. The sport will survive this.

No-one forgot what Herschelle Gibbs did (far worse than Aamir, I think) but I don't think his presence negatively impacted the sport.

 

[zaremba]

I couldn't care less that it's 'spot betting' as opposed to traditional match-fixing, it doesn't make it any more forgivable.

Yeah it does. Still serious but not as bad as rigging a whole match.

 

[Fusion]

Punish him if he's guilty, say Aamer's relatives.

 

[Faisal1985]

His parents should go to England...and give him a beating of his life in front of everyone and media and bring him back home and ground him.....i know my dad would have done the same...

 

[honestbharani]

All posts made by that poster today have been deleted. Mainly just to confuse people who missed it and are going to read through the thread.

Jeez, you are so harsh..

 

[wpdavid]

His parents should go to England...and give him a beating of his life in front of everyone and media and bring him back home and ground him.....i know my dad would have done the same...

Yeah, grounding him should do it.

And he must owe about a year's worth of homework ....

 

[Uppercut]

Chicken Littleism, tbh. It survived captains from Pakistan and South Africa (with an Indian captain implicated) being charged and convicted not of spot betting but fixing whole matches, infecting the teams in which they played and corrupting others including the young fellas. The sport will survive this.

No-one forgot what Herschelle Gibbs did (far worse than Aamir, I think) but I don't think his presence negatively impacted the sport.

How was it worse? Gibbs didn't do anything. Whether it was out of his own sheer stupidity or having second thoughts, he didn't do anything.

And I do think the damage from that incident was severe. I honestly don't think cricket had fully recovered from it. There's a certain generation of casual fan that will always associate cricket with match-fixing purely because of that. The sport isn't going to just "die out", but its integrity was permanently damaged, and will be again.

 

[Top_Cat]

How was it worse? Gibbs didn't do anything. Whether it was out of his own sheer stupidity or having second thoughts, he didn't do anything.

He agreed to take money, that's not doing nothing at all. That he didn't go through with it or collect lessens the offence substantially but only from 'life ban' to 'indefensible'. He claims he was just having too much fun and not a few people thought that was bollocks.

And I do think the damage from that incident was severe. I honestly don't think cricket had fully recovered from it. There's a certain generation of casual fan that will always associate cricket with match-fixing purely because of that. The sport isn't going to just "die out", but its integrity was permanently damaged, and will be again.

Meh, I only ever hear about Gibbs any more on here, tbh. And not that often. Very few casual fans I know have even heard of Cronje, even less remember Salim Malik and I'd hazard a guess that not one remembers what Gibbs did or agreed to do, let alone guys like Azhar.