Tests: Best ever Opening batsman

[Richard]

Can't consider Gooch for the opening spot IMO. Made his debut at 5 and didn't start opening the batting for England until 3 years later. Clearly not an opener.

He however had been an opening batsman all his life, at every level he played at, and only made his Test debut as a number-five because the side was stacked with openers at the time. Langer on the other hand had always been a middle-order batsman at every level he'd played at until the 2001 Fifth Test.

 

[Ikki]

You still didn't explain why it matters either way. Langer > Gooch.

 

[archie mac]

I had the pleasure of watching a lot of Gooch and Langer, and personally I thought Googh the better batsman, although Langer was a class act. I would in fact have Slater in front of Langer

Langer had problems with his technique, why else would he get hit in the head so many times in Tests?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

He however had been an opening batsman all his life, at every level he played at, and only made his Test debut as a number-five because the side was stacked with openers at the time. Langer on the other hand had always been a middle-order batsman at every level he'd played at until the 2001 Fifth Test.

Completely wrong. Gooch was not an opening batsman at all at First Class level. He batted at 4 or 5 for Essex and only started opening in 1978 shortly before his England recall.

 

[andyc]

Langer had problems with his technique, why else would he get hit in the head so many times in Tests?

Except batting in Test cricket isn't about how many times you get hit in the head, but about how many runs you score.

 

[andyc]

Either way... Langer certainly did notplay the majority of his Test career as an opening batsman.

Uh oh...

At number 3: 61 innings
At number 4: 5 innings
At number 7: 1 innings
As opener: 115 innings

Would probably put that somewhere in the vicinity of 'the majority' of his Test career, just personally.

 

[Streetwise]

Uh oh...

At number 3: 61 innings
At number 4: 5 innings
At number 7: 1 innings
As opener: 115 innings

Would probably put that somewhere in the vicinity of 'the majority' of his Test career, just personally.

There is not one English batsman who played in the same era as Langer who had half the success as him. I think it is just sour grapes from Richard.

 

[archie mac]

Except batting in Test cricket isn't about how many times you get hit in the head, but about how many runs you score.

If it was just about how many runs you scored no one would watch, I think it is about how as well (for me anyway). Being hit in the head as much as Langer shows poor technique, he is just luck he played Test cricket when he did

 

[Days of Grace]

There is not one English batsman who played in the same era as Langer who had half the success as him. I think it is just sour grapes from Richard.

If Richard is consistent, he would say that Gilchrist is not Australia's best ever ODI opener, since he was not an opener by trade.

 

[andyc]

If Richard is consistent, he would say that Gilchrist is not Australia's best ever ODI opener, since he was not an opener by trade.

Pretty sure he rates Mark Waugh higher anyway, which is a fair enough call.

 

[Athlai]

Heard Richard rates Hayden as Australia's greatest ODI opener.

 

[Days of Grace]

Pretty sure he rates Mark Waugh higher anyway, which is a fair enough call.

Mark Waugh was a no.4 batsmen who was made into an ODI opener.

 

[SaeedAnwar]

you guys forgot saeed anwar, the best test opener for pakistan

 

[bagapath]

you guys forgot saeed anwar, the best test opener for pakistan

i dont think he belongs in an all-time poll. hanif mohammad, the best pakistani opener of alltime, should be there as an option, though

 

[social]

has to be hobbs. scored tons of runs either side of the big war on different surfaces facing different bowlers playing completely different games (front foot and attacking/ backfoot and pragmatic). went on and on for three decades in both FC and tests as the no.1 batsman in the world. would have maintained a 50+ avg against the windies pace battery of the 70s. and that is the highest praise i could think of.

Cant be certain of that as he never faced an attack with remotely their class, depth or pace

 

[zaremba]

There is not one English batsman who played in the same era as Langer who had half the success as him. I think it is just sour grapes from Richard.

Sorry but you're wide of the mark.

First, Richard may have some odd theories (Gooch had always been an opener before he played for England; Langer didn't play the majority of his Tests as opener) but he's not got a particularly pro-English bias. If it's national bias you're after, there are one or two contributors to this thread that spring immediately to mind but Richard isn't among them.

Second, even if he did have a pro-English bias, why would there be any sour grapes from him in relation to a poll in which 3 of the 5 top openers are English, including the runaway leader?

Third, I'd suggest four batsmen in the Langer era who had at least "half the success" that he did: Trescothick, Vaughan, Strauss, Pietersen.

 

[zaremba]

He however had been an opening batsman all his life, at every level he played at, and only made his Test debut as a number-five because the side was stacked with openers at the time. Langer on the other hand had always been a middle-order batsman at every level he'd played at until the 2001 Fifth Test.

Prompted by LT's post I had a quick look at Gooch's early playing days on cricket archive.

Apart from a couple of Sunday League games I can't find any instances on cricket archive of him opening in any form of cricket prior to his England debut. What's more he often batted as low as 8 or 9 in the order, even in 2nd XI cricket, and occasionally even played as a wicketkeeper.

 

[Ikki]

Sorry but you're wide of the mark.

First, Richard may have some odd theories (Gooch had always been an opener before he played for England; Langer didn't play the majority of his Tests as opener) but he's not got a particularly pro-English bias. If it's national bias you're after, there are one or two contributors to this thread that spring immediately to mind but Richard isn't among them.

Second, even if he did have a pro-English bias, why would there be any sour grapes from him in relation to a poll in which 3 of the 5 top openers are English, including the runaway leader?

Third, I'd suggest four batsmen in the Langer era who had at least "half the success" that he did: Trescothick, Vaughan, Strauss, Pietersen.

I can understand national bias' when we talk about Tendulkar v Ponting or Murali v Warne; but Richard's opinions are so wayward for some of his countrymen that he has to concoct ****amamy theories to appear he has reasoning; see Hayden and now Langer. As for your second question; it's Richard, he doesn't need a sane reason.

And of the batsmen you named only Pietersen gets close (in fact would/could surpass) but he isn't an opener. Vaughan isn't either but he is behind Langer by a distance. Same goes for Strauss and Trescothick.

 

[zaremba]

of the batsmen you named only Pietersen gets close (in fact I think surpasses) but he isn't an opener. Vaughan isn't either but he is behind Langer by a distance. Same goes for Strauss and Trescothick.

The post to which I was responding wasn't limited to openers.

Vaughan's best series were played as an opener, including his wonderful Ashes series in 02/03. However Richard has always taken the view that Vaughan has never been a good Test opener, as to which (a) he's wrong and (b) it does rather support the view that he's not a one-eyed English fanboy.

Have Strauss and Trescothick they had "half the success" that Langer has had? If you think they haven't, I think that with respect you're kidding yourself.

 

[UncleTheOne]

graham thorpe >>>>> justin langer.

....and you can take that to the bank.