Shane Warne - the myth

[StephenZA]

I don't think he tried too hard at first class level. His shield average was rotten too.

Without wanting to get into the debate that is just a horrendous excuse for poor performance.

 

[vcs]

I think Brian McMillan was tailender-level hopeless vs. spin. His career breakdown in and outside Asia is hilarious.

 

[Shady Slim]

there is a decent sample size in hampshire but i don't think his victoria career was particularly long compared to his test career no?

samplesizelol and all that, and regardless, holding stats in FC against someone with such compelling test performances is clown college

 

[ankitj]

It's a strange anomaly. Did poorly in first class cricket where standard of cricket is lower, did very well in tests except one side. Don't know if not tried hard enough is good enough explanation. Professional Cricketers try hard every time they are on the field. I don't know if this has to do with phases in his career when he played tests vs. first class.

 

[ankitj]

Without wanting to get into the debate that is just a horrendous excuse for poor performance.

#AussieExcuses

 

[a massive zebra]

Total myth. Forged his reputation in England on the back of bowling Mike Gatting with a leg side long hop that Geoff Boycott's mother would have played with a stick of rhubarb.

Warne has the reputation of being a bowler of magic deliveries, but after his shoulder operation he was in essence a very straightforward loopy legspinner, who got most of his wickets through immaculate set-ups and execution. I suspect Murali actually got a higher proportion of his wickets through unplayable deliveries.

Warne's method of bowling relied quite a bit on playing with a batsman's mind and being able to put the batsmen under mental pressure. The pressure on a batsman in domestic or club cricket is not comparable to the pressure on a batsman in a big Test series with thousands at the ground and millions watching on TV, where a lot is at stake. Warne's ability to set traps and deceive a batsmen really shone through in those circumstances. In comparison, Murali didn't really play mind games. His bowling was built around just bowling tonnes of very good to unplayable deliveries and constantly testing a batsman's technique. He'd thrive at any level of cricket, no matter what was on the line. In low pressure matches against lower standard opposition, Warne didn't have the depth of skill to really exploit the considerable technical deficiencies of the batsmen to the same extent as Murali and some other bowlers.

 

[a massive zebra]

there is a decent sample size in hampshire but i don't think his victoria career was particularly long compared to his test career no?

samplesizelol and all that, and regardless, holding stats in FC against someone with such compelling test performances is clown college

46 matches for Victoria in the Sheffield Shield.

 

[honestbharani]

I love Shane Warne inspite of his off field demeanours as he was kinda cricket's Beckham at that time and the game needed players like that to become the big deal it did. Him Vs SAchin (as much as I rate both Murali and Lara to be better, respectively) collectively gave the push to cricket to break open the floodgates in terms of the money it can make etc. There are a number of places to go back to and see when Aus Vs India became a thing but to me, having lived through that period of time as a teen, it was totally Warne vs Sachin that made cricket what it has become today. Without all that, there would be no IPL, none of the amounts of money we are actually seeing in the game. And he was super nice to me the couple of times I have actually spoken to him when at the ground. Guy seems like an absolute genius as a spinner in terms of how he thinks and sets up wickets and plays, maybe got the reputation of cricketing mind from there but its obvious he has trouble understanding how others go. Then again, he did win the IPL with RR the first season with a lot of relatively unknown players. He did have the foresight to form a good core, including an international captain in Graeme Smith which has later kinda become the blueprint for CSK. I love giving some of the Aussie posters here a taste of their own medicine as much as the next guy, but Warney is and will always remain a favorite cricketer of mine.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Warne virtually never even bowled the "googly" (weird name for the wrong'un btw) after his shoulder surgery. Definitely can't say he mastered it when he could barely even physically bowl it.

It is and it'd never really occurred to me until Saturday when, after Rashid castled KoB with a picture perfect example and the missus asked me why it was called a "googly", I realised I had no idea.

I related, in a vain attempt to demonstrate that after 35+ years of watching the sport I had acquired some vague clue, that in Oz it's sometimes referred to as a "Bosie" after its originator Bernie Bosanquet or the more self-explanatory "wrong 'un", but had to confess I genuinely didn't know.

Google isn't all that helpful either. Anyone shed any light?

 

[OverratedSanity]

It is and it'd never really occurred to me until Saturday when, after Rashid castled KoB with a picture perfect example and the missus asked me why it was called a "googly", I realised I had no idea.

I related, in a vain attempt to demonstrate that after 35+ years of watching the sport I had acquired some vague clue, that in Oz it's sometimes referred to as a "Bosie" after its originator Bernie Bosanquet or the more self-explanatory "wrong 'un", but had to confess I genuinely didn't know.

Google isn't all that helpful either. Anyone shed any light?

Reference to 'googly eyes' isn't it? It's weird though... Wrong 'un and doosra way more appropriate names.

 

[a massive zebra]

It is and it'd never really occurred to me until Saturday when, after Rashid castled KoB with a picture perfect example and the missus asked me why it was called a "googly", I realised I had no idea.

I related, in a vain attempt to demonstrate that after 35+ years of watching the sport I had acquired some vague clue, that in Oz it's sometimes referred to as a "Bosie" after its originator Bernie Bosanquet or the more self-explanatory "wrong 'un", but had to confess I genuinely didn't know.

Google isn't all that helpful either. Anyone shed any light?

See this article:

The Name of the Googly

The name “googly” became associated with Bernard Bosanquet’s delivery that looked like a leg-break but behaved like an off-break. But where that name came from has always been som…

www.google.com

 

[BoyBrumby]

Reference to 'googly eyes' isn't it? It's weird though... Wrong 'un and doosra way more appropriate names.

That's the best suggestion Google seemed to through up for me too, but it's a bit non-committal where googly eyes comes from itself (possibly related to "goggle", apparently), so I can't help but wonder if the delivery predates it.

 

[BoyBrumby]

See this article:

The Name of the Googly

The name “googly” became associated with Bernard Bosanquet’s delivery that looked like a leg-break but behaved like an off-break. But where that name came from has always been som…

www.google.com

Ah, appreciate it. Ta.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Shuoldered arms to this thread so far, but now I have to play at one.

To say that Shane Warne having a pretty meh record playing for Victoria should count against him is a dreadful take tstl

Barely played much Shield cricket anyway during those years, and when he did it was only one game at a time when there were no international commitments. Besides almost no Australian spinners of the era had especially good numbers in what really was the golden era of Australian batting. Someone like Peter McIntyre was far better than most of today's spin stocks, yet his career record wasn't too impressive going by raw numbers, and he certainly isn't the only one

 

[stephen]

Warne has the reputation of being a bowler of magic deliveries, but after his shoulder operation he was in essence a very straightforward loopy legspinner, who got most of his wickets through immaculate set-ups and execution. I suspect Murali actually got a higher proportion of his wickets through unplayable deliveries.

Warne's method of bowling relied quite a bit on playing with a batsman's mind and being able to put the batsmen under mental pressure. The pressure on a batsman in domestic or club cricket is not comparable to the pressure on a batsman in a big Test series with thousands at the ground and millions watching on TV, where a lot is at stake. Warne's ability to set traps and deceive a batsmen really shone through in those circumstances. In comparison, Murali didn't really play mind games. His bowling was built around just bowling tonnes of very good to unplayable deliveries and constantly testing a batsman's technique. He'd thrive at any level of cricket, no matter what was on the line. In low pressure matches against lower standard opposition, Warne didn't have the depth of skill to really exploit the considerable technical deficiencies of the batsmen to the same extent as Murali and some other bowlers.

I disagree. Warne was the kind of bloke who ready needed a challenge to get the blood pumping. The bigger the stage the more he seemed to like it and the better he played. I think his intensity was lower in first class cricket and he experimented a bit more (he occasionally was known to bowl a bouncer in first class matches).

In a first class match I think Murali would be a much better draft pick than Warne. But at the top level in the highest pressure situations I'd back Warne to pull out something special.

 

[stephen]

Shuoldered arms to this thread so far, but now I have to play at one.

To say that Shane Warne having a pretty meh record playing for Victoria should count against him is a dreadful take tstl

Barely played much Shield cricket anyway during those years, and when he did it was only one game at a time when there were no international commitments. Besides almost no Australian spinners of the era had especially good numbers in what really was the golden era of Australian batting. Someone like Peter McIntyre was far better than most of today's spin stocks, yet his career record wasn't too impressive going by raw numbers, and he certainly isn't the only one

MacGill had a much better test average than first class average. One also can't first that first class pitches don't deteriorate as much as test pitches either and they're more likely to be green tops.

But I think in Warne's case he often didn't bowl at the same intensity as he did in tests.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

MacGill had a much better test average than first class average. One also can't first that first class pitches don't deteriorate as much as test pitches either and they're more likely to be green tops.

But I think in Warne's case he often didn't bowl at the same intensity as he did in tests.

Probably a fair point. Anyway as a Queenslander what did you make of Paul Jackson?

Thought he looked alright myself, not a superstar but more than handy with his left arm slow offerings

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's a strange anomaly. Did poorly in first class cricket where standard of cricket is lower, did very well in tests except one side. Don't know if not tried hard enough is good enough explanation. Professional Cricketers try hard every time they are on the field. I don't know if this has to do with phases in his career when he played tests vs. first class.

Not sure how much lower the standard of domestic cricket in Aus was to Test cricket in the 90s tbh. Surely it must have been lower but probably not as much as you'd expect, it wasn't uncommon for Aus cricketers to have better international stats than domestic stats during that time period.

 

[honestbharani]

Google did not get their name from Googly?

 

[Arachnodouche]

Huge Warne fan here and won't be lying if I said I wished for him to get a big haul against us from time to time. Huge McGrath fan too but never wanted the same for him, funny.