Repercussions

[Jono]

I'm fine with the idea that India have been **** this series and that we should be disappointed. Lord knows I am disappointed, I travelled from Australia to England in large part to go see India at Lord's and I even went to Nottingham on a day trip to see them play. Clearly they have been underwhelming in the first two tests and downright disgraceful in the last two.

But believe it or not, this does not discard what they achieved in previous years.

 

[Jacknife]

I'm fine with the idea that India have been **** this series and that we should be disappointed. Lord knows I am disappointed, I travelled from Australia to England in large part to go see India at Lord's and I even went to Nottingham on a day trip to see them play. Clearly they have been underwhelming in the first two tests and downright disgraceful in the last two.

But believe it or not, this does not discard what they achieved in previous years.

I agree with you mate, India have played very well for some time.

 

[BoyBrumby]

That would be valid if the posts about the Indian team by some English members were actually saying that they've been a disappointment, and not that they are a rubbish team who can't bowl and whose batsmen are a millionaire's club that's not been tested at all until they came to England.

That's not quite what Corrin said tho.

Nonetheless, India's millionaires club was tested properly for the first time in a while (in Tests) this summer and came up short. If they don't want to be told what they need to do, then their egod need taking down a peg or two. And that's where the similarity with England's footballers lies.

Now he's big & ugly enough to look after himself, but my reading is he was suggesting India were resting on their laurels a bit and hadn't put in the hard yards necessary for the challenge facing them, not that they were a rubbish side.

Whether or not one agrees with the comparison with our national association football side, there is an element of truth in it. India do not look a hungry side.

 

[Howe_zat]

RP looks like he's been pretty hungry over the last few months tbh.

 

[Jono]

But they weren't tested for the first time. They were given a stern test in South Africa and held their own. Now unless he believes 8 months is a long time (which I don't think it is, because its just two test series ago, and the last one Sachin played) then he's flat out wrong that India haven't been tested lately.

They weren't prepared in SA and did okay. They weren't prepared in England and got smashed. One team is better than the other.

 

[BoyBrumby]

RP looks like he's been pretty hungry over the last few months tbh.

Looks pretty well sated now tho. Not the only one either.

But they weren't tested for the first time. They were given a stern test in South Africa and held their own. Now unless he believes 8 months is a long time (which I don't think it is, because its just two test series ago, and the last one Sachin played) then he's flat out wrong that India haven't been tested lately.

They weren't prepared in SA and did okay. They weren't prepared in England and got smashed. One team is better than the other.

Fair enough.

India took one against the head there (& in SL too), but that might well be part of the problem too. Because they'd gotten away with it before they assumed they would again. There was a lot of talk on CW about India being slow starters to tours and the assumption it would all come good. As it turned out they didn't even maintain the standards of the first test and a half.

 

[Jono]

Well they did come good early in Trent Bridge and everyone thought it was all happening again. The first two days were theirs really, even with Broad's hattrick they were still on top. Then England just played some fantastic cricket and came back brilliantly.

This is my point. People are talking about how badly prepared India were for this series. They have been doing similar things for the last few years and getting away with it. Now they haven't. Yes they should be criticised for poor preparation, but England should receive credit for being the first team actually able to sustain their stronghold over the team for the series. Fair enough India have had some injuries too, but I've been pretty impressed by England.

I know its easy to make over the top statements about how poor India are as a team, because they have been unbeleivably bad this series. But other than soothing that urge to bag them to get back at ****y Indian fans, it doesn't really do much in terms of cricket discussion and analysing the series.

I reckon any other team bar England would have lost at Trent Bridge.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Well they did come good early in Trent Bridge and everyone thought it was all happening again. The first two days were theirs really, even with Broad's hattrick they were still on top. Then England just played some fantastic cricket and came back brilliantly.

This is my point. People are talking about how badly prepared India were for this series. They have been doing similar things for the last few years and getting away with it. Now they haven't. Yes they should be criticised for poor preparation, but England should receive credit for being the first team actually able to sustain their stronghold over the team for the series. Fair enough India have had some injuries too, but I've been pretty impressed by England.

I know its easy to make over the top statements about how poor India are as a team, because they have been unbeleivably bad this series. But other than soothing that urge to bag them to get back at ****y Indian fans, it doesn't really do much in terms of cricket discussion and analysing the series.

I reckon any other team bar England would have lost at Trent Bridge.

Hence my point about "first test and a half". India had their moments at Lords too (we were 60-odd for 5 in the second innings, let's not forget), but could never quite grasp the nettle.

Now that is partly to do with England's new found resilience (as you're gracious enough to say), but when things have gone against them Indian heads have dropped. There's been no-one to haul them up by the bootstraps either by word or by deed and it's looked ugly and unprofessional.

 

[Jono]

Yeah no doubt. Not arguing against that at all.

 

[Top_Cat]

Not buying that India were poorly prepared, tbh. Most of the squad went to the WI and no-one has played more Tests or ODI's in the past year than India. Yet somehow, a bunch of them have turned up lacking condition. In my opinion, they'd have been hammered no matter who turned up. This doesn't make them a crap side, just not in the same ballpark as England. England's play has just made the cracks some could see into yawning chasms obvious to everyone and their dog.

Poorly managed/selected, absolutely. Any team that has a squad of guys who can be neatly divided into 'jaded' and 'unfit' certainly is that.

 

[GIMH]

I am not sure how much test cricket not involving England you watch, but India were most certainly tested in South Africa. In fact, they faced some of the best bowling I have ever seen from Steyn in that third test, and came out pretty well. They haven't beaten **** teams and finally lost to a good team. They've played well for many years, but have fallen short against a better team.

I really don't see how England fans bagging the **** out of the Indian team does their team any favours. In fact its only putting down the achievements of England in this series. Fair enough the 3rd and 4th tests have been piss poor from India, but they showed up at Lord's, but England were too good. And India were well on top at Trent Bridge and England showed guts and fought back. That should be talked about, not just insulting the Indian team as a millionaire's club who have beaten easy opposition. That's blatantly rubbish.

That's not quite what Corrin said tho.



Now he's big & ugly enough to look after himself, but my reading is he was suggesting India were resting on their laurels a bit and hadn't put in the hard yards necessary for the challenge facing them, not that they were a rubbish side.

Whether or not one agrees with the comparison with our national association football side, there is an element of truth in it. India do not look a hungry side.

Brumby has this covered, as does AlwaysProteas - the England attack sustains constant pressure, there has been no let up. It's not a dig on India to say they haven't had to face that sort of test - it's just a matter of fact. I think the Indian batsmen expected to roll up in England and have runs served on a plate. I make no apologies for that.

 

[GotSpin]

Brumby has this covered, as does AlwaysProteas - the England attack sustains constant pressure, there has been no let up. It's not a dig on India to say they haven't had to face that sort of test - it's just a matter of fact. I think the Indian batsmen expected to roll up in England and have runs served on a plate. I make no apologies for that.

Indeed. Against South Africa, if you survived Steyn and to a lesser extent Morkel, you could fill your boots against their other 'bowlers'

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Nobody is saying that India are a crap side, they will go away after this tour and lick their wounds and no doubt bounce back by crushing WI before they go on a fascinating tour to Australia. I can see them struggling there though with their popgun attack BUT if the batting is sorted by then and not resembling the cast of Wizard of Oz (Sehwag = Tin Man, Gambhir = Cowardly Lion and Raina = Sacrecrow) then they will have a good chance of securing 4 draws as the Aussie attack is nothing special either and could be pummellled if the Indian players find some form.

That series is massive for both sides and probably bigger than both sides realise as interest in Australia will drop off if they get beaten at home again and if India lose the old timers may be forced out. Of all the series in the next 6-8 months this one has more going for it than any other.

 

[centurymaker]

it's only when swann comes on that the pressure goes down a notch. otherwise yeah there's sustained pressure

 

[GotSpin]

Nobody is saying that India are a crap side, they will go away after this tour and lick their wounds and no doubt bounce back by crushing WI before they go on a fascinating tour to Australia. I can see them struggling there though with their popgun attack BUT if the batting is sorted by then and not resembling the cast of Wizard of Oz (Sehwag = Tin Man, Gambhir = Cowardly Lion and Raina = Sacrecrow) then they will have a good chance of securing 4 draws as the Aussie attack is nothing special either and could be pummellled if the Indian players find some form.

That series is massive for both sides and probably bigger than both sides realise as interest in Australia will drop off if they get beaten at home again and if India lose the old timers may be forced out. Of all the series in the next 6-8 months this one has more going for it than any other.

I'm getting a bit more positive about our chances for summer. The review has come with some great changes to be implemented, some tough series beforehand to work out the kinks, and a lot of first class cricket to be played before the tests gets underway. In saying that, we could just as easily get pumped all year.

 

[centurymaker]

Nobody is saying that India are a crap side, they will go away after this tour and lick their wounds and no doubt bounce back by crushing WI before they go on a fascinating tour to Australia. I can see them struggling there though with their popgun attack BUT if the batting is sorted by then and not resembling the cast of Wizard of Oz (Sehwag = Tin Man, Gambhir = Cowardly Lion and Raina = Sacrecrow) then they will have a good chance of securing 4 draws as the Aussie attack is nothing special either and could be pummellled if the Indian players find some form.

That series is massive for both sides and probably bigger than both sides realise as interest in Australia will drop off if they get beaten at home again and if India lose the old timers may be forced out. Of all the series in the next 6-8 months this one has more going for it than any other.

yup, if zaheer is not back with full fitness, no new gun fast bowler is discovered and harby plays instead of ashwin, then yeah india will probably lose that too, 2-0 ...

i don't think the aussie attack is that bad. it's pretty good. they are just a bit inconsistent. on their day they can wreak havoc unlike the indian attack with ishant, praveen, harby etc

and yeah india team will be drastically changed if they lose again.

and i have little respect for gambhir. he's such a soft ***** cat

 

[smash84]

Nobody is saying that India are a crap side, they will go away after this tour and lick their wounds and no doubt bounce back by crushing WI before they go on a fascinating tour to Australia. I can see them struggling there though with their popgun attack BUT if the batting is sorted by then and not resembling the cast of Wizard of Oz (Sehwag = Tin Man, Gambhir = Cowardly Lion and Raina = Sacrecrow) then they will have a good chance of securing 4 draws as the Aussie attack is nothing special either and could be pummellled if the Indian players find some form.

haha.....funny analogy

 

[centurymaker]

Brumby has this covered, as does AlwaysProteas - the England attack sustains constant pressure, there has been no let up. It's not a dig on India to say they haven't had to face that sort of test - it's just a matter of fact. I think the Indian batsmen expected to roll up in England and have runs served on a plate. I make no apologies for that.

yeah agree, having done well in SA, they assumed they'd go well here too because they won here last time...

 

[Cevno]

yeah agree, having done well in SA, they assumed they'd go well here too because they won here last time...

Except for Sachin who was clearly the best, Gambhir and on 2 important occasions Laxman who did well that tour too? It's not like everybody was imperious.

The difference was that these 3 largely combined with tail wags and small contributions was enough because the bowlers stepped up in the last 2 test. In this series the batting has been poor but they have been given no encouragement from the bowlers for the most part at all and that affects too psychologically and makes batting performances less crucial and futile.
While they have been surely dissapointing ,l am more worried about the bowling without a leader in Zaheer on strong overseas tours than the batting by a miles. As like the first test in South Africa the importance of Zaheer firing has been illustrated again and it is worrying.

 

[centurymaker]

Except for Sachin who was clearly the best, Gambhir and on 2 important occasions Laxman who did well that tour too? It's not like everybody was imperious.

The difference was that these 3 largely combined with tail wags and small contributions was enough because the bowlers stepped up in the last 2 test. In this series the batting has been poor but they have been given no encouragement from the bowlers for the most part at all and that affects too psychologically and makes batting performances less crucial and futile.
While they have been surely dissapointing ,l am more worried about the bowling without a leader in Zaheer on strong overseas tours than the batting by a miles. As like the first test in South Africa the importance of Zaheer firing has been illustrated again and it is worrying.

good point. batsmen do lose hope.
losing zaheer shattered their confidence and then TB happened which basically finished them