Repercussions

[Cevno]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...wling_by_team.html?id=6112;team=6;type=series

Cricket Records | Records | India in South Africa Test Series, 2010/11 - India | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

Interesting that with most saying how the Indian batsman did well in SA and very very poorly in England the tour averages are not that far apart if you see for the batsman playing each series till now.

That illustrates the difference the bowling has caused in the 2 series and with and without Zaheer effect. When Dravid's century comes chasing 300 then it looks pretty good but not when chasing 600 and same with the crucial 30/40 odd innings and then the psychological pressure mounts.

The key ofcourse is the bowling and batting performing at the same and right times to make each other look good which hasn't happened this series compared to what happened in South Africa. And the Key crucial factor to this was in the last 2 tests Zaheer was very good and lead the attack and along with him Sreesanth and then Harbhajan stepped up to get the batsman something to aim for and confidence.

 

[centurymaker]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...wling_by_team.html?id=6112;team=6;type=series

Cricket Records | Records | India in South Africa Test Series, 2010/11 - India | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

Interesting that with most saying how the Indian batsman did well in SA and very very poorly in England the tour averages are not that far apart if you see for the batsman playing each series till now.

That illustrates the difference the bowling has caused in the 2 series and with and without Zaheer effect. When Dravid's century comes chasing 300 then it looks pretty good but not when chasing 600 and same with the crucial 30/40 odd innings and then the psychological pressure mounts.

The key ofcourse is the bowling and batting performing at the same and right times to make each other look good which hasn't happened this series compared to what happened in South Africa. And the Key crucial factor to this was in the last 2 tests Zaheer was very good and lead the attack and along with him Sreesanth and then Harbhajan stepped up to get the batsman something to aim for and confidence.

gun post. you've woken people up.

 

[Redbacks]

What they need:

Protien, protien, protien!!!

 

[GIMH]

If India swap Raina and Mishra's roles they would improve as a side immediately

 

[Uppercut]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...wling_by_team.html?id=6112;team=6;type=series

Cricket Records | Records | India in South Africa Test Series, 2010/11 - India | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

Interesting that with most saying how the Indian batsman did well in SA and very very poorly in England the tour averages are not that far apart if you see for the batsman playing each series till now.

There is actually a pretty big difference there tbh. Three top order batsmen performing well in South Africa compared to one in England.

 

[G.I.Joe]

What they need:

Protien, protien, protien!!!

Protein, even :P

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Na he is doing the South African spelling so India obviously need a few Saffers like England have got.

 

[Cruxdude]

Recuperating from this thrashing is going to be tough. Don't see Sehwag playing many tests for India considering the injuries and Harbhajan is in for a long time at the sidelines.

We need to blood in the youngsters and find out how many can realistically make the grade. Have Rahane, Pujara, Mukund, Rayudu, Rohit Sharma got it in them to nail down a spot in the team? But the fact that the three best batsmen in the team currently are aged over 36 is going to reduce the chances for the youngsters.

Who is going to be our spinner. Is Ashwin good enough for tests? Can Munaf step up? A lot of questions indeed.

 

[Umar_Akmal]

Well they did come good early in Trent Bridge and everyone thought it was all happening again. The first two days were theirs really, even with Broad's hattrick they were still on top. Then England just played some fantastic cricket and came back brilliantly.

This is my point. People are talking about how badly prepared India were for this series. They have been doing similar things for the last few years and getting away with it. Now they haven't. Yes they should be criticised for poor preparation, but England should receive credit for being the first team actually able to sustain their stronghold over the team for the series. Fair enough India have had some injuries too, but I've been pretty impressed by England.

I know its easy to make over the top statements about how poor India are as a team, because they have been unbeleivably bad this series. But other than soothing that urge to bag them to get back at ****y Indian fans, it doesn't really do much in terms of cricket discussion and analysing the series.

I reckon any other team bar England would have lost at Trent Bridge.

SA should have won the 2nd test if UDRS was placed. India just got lucky in SA. Good to see non deserving number 1 rank team come down to earth.

 

[TumTum]

1 bad series and India are already in decline? Something doesn't make any sense...

Either they were not good to begin with (very much the case here, especially in the bowling), or they just had 1 bad series and are not in decline (unlike Australia).

 

[centurymaker]

1 bad series and India are already in decline? Something doesn't make any sense...

Either they were not good to begin with (very much the case here, especially in the bowling), or they just had 1 bad series and are not in decline (unlike Australia).

we'll find out in australia in 4 months.

 

[Furball]

Leaving aside the woefulness of India's bowling attack for now, long term there's a huge issue looming with India's batting. How you replace guys of the class of Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman is an issue any side in the world would struggle with, and while it's an obvious issue, it doesn't look good for India - it's now coming up to 3 years since Ganguly's retirement and he still hasn't been adequately replaced at number 6. Yuvraj has done alright - he's averaged 40 in the position since Ganguly retired - but he's not scored a ton since whenever the last time India played Pakistan was and while his numbers have been adequate, they've not been spectacular and an Indian side where Yuvraj is your senior middle order batsman isn't something that many Indian fans would look forward to.

There's a few young guns who have excellent First Class records, and Rahane has certainly looked good in his first couple of international outings - but the struggles of guys like Mukund and Murali Vijay to properly adapt to Test cricket means that I'll take the First Class records of guys like Pujara, Kohli, Rohit and even Badrinath with a pinch of salt.

The selection issues sorrounding India's middle order (why Yuvraj and Raina got the nod over players far more qualifed is beyond me, although ironically Raina is the only one of India's new generation who - briefly - has looked like he belongs at Test level) and the complete failure to replace Ganguly doesn't look good when it's looking likely that India will need to replace 3 legends in the not too distant future.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't think it is a case of batting alone.. It is one of attitude and that is what worries me. Are these guys really thinking test cricket is what matters? If that can be answered with a yes, we will have very few problems, given the sort of talent pool we got. If there is a dip, it will only be a matter of time before we get good again. But IPL and BCCI are a combination that can derail most teams...

 

[Bun]

I think we all have been talking about this for last 5 years from memory as to how we are going to deal with the transitions but it really pains me that still no concrete solutions have been identified nor any potential successors to these chaps being groomed. Now, I know that the big guns have done enough to warrant selections in the first XI (barring Dravid for a lengthy period of 3 years but he's now come good in the the last few months), but no youngsters really have put their hands up and shown themselves to be considered as atleast competition to these seniors for their spots.

Every now and then someone plays the odd good innings and we all get misled to thinking that we have got an answer to our problem only to be deceived afterwards. Also this revolving door policy and overrewarding for exploits in limited overs cricket has meant that really deserving guys haven't got a good run to assert themselves. I think S Badrinath and Ajinkya Rahane fall into this category.

But then again, I don't have too many worries on the batting front as I believe these guys have the pedigree to come good eventually. We have really never been short of batting talent in a long time and our pipeline looks healthy imho. What we lack are bowlers. There is a really worrying trend in India wherein youngsters taking to cricket want to become batsmen as that is the more glamorous activity and proliferation of t20s has accentuated that. An argument is that they seldom have role models to follow in bowling whereas they are spoiled for choice in batting, so eventually this is like a vicious circle.

 

[NasserFan207]

I think we all have been talking about this for last 5 years from memory as to how we are going to deal with the transitions but it really pains me that still no concrete solutions have been identified nor any potential successors to these chaps being groomed. Now, I know that the big guns have done enough to warrant selections in the first XI (barring Dravid for a lengthy period of 3 years but he's now come good in the the last few months), but no youngsters really have put their hands up and shown themselves to be considered as atleast competition to these seniors for their spots.

Every now and then someone plays the odd good innings and we all get misled to thinking that we have got an answer to our problem only to be deceived afterwards. Also this revolving door policy and overrewarding for exploits in limited overs cricket has meant that really deserving guys haven't got a good run to assert themselves. I think S Badrinath and Ajinkya Rahane fall into this category.

But then again, I don't have too many worries on the batting front as I believe these guys have the pedigree to come good eventually. We have really never been short of batting talent in a long time and our pipeline looks healthy imho. What we lack are bowlers. There is a really worrying trend in India wherein youngsters taking to cricket want to become batsmen as that is the more glamorous activity and proliferation of t20s has accentuated that. An argument is that they seldom have role models to follow in bowling whereas they are spoiled for choice in batting, so eventually this is like a vicious circle.

Bun, you are looking at things the wrong way (in terms of looking for replacements for the big guns). To put it simply, you can't just 'replace' Sachin, Dravid and Laxman, all three could be considered ATG batsmen and unfortunately a drop in class with their replacements is a given. You need to stop searching for the next Sachin and just pick the best out of what you already have and hope they go well.

You will probably have a period of decline but honestly that's natural. No team can suddenly replace ATG players. It doesn't happen.

 

[Mehul K]

I do think Praveen has shown many obsevers (self included and many more seasoned than I) that pace isn't the be all and end all. If there are some other Indian seam-up bowlers who can do a similar job to him they might be worth blooding. Ishant is worth perserving with as there's definitely something there, but Sree has been bitterly disappointing this series.

Might be time to say "thanks for coming" to Harbhajan too. Obviously spin hasn't been to the fore in this series, but he hasn't been a threat at all and seems unable to tie up an end anymore. Mishra hardly grasped the nettle either, so maybe Ojha (who has impressed me whenever I've seen him) should be given an extened chance.

Raina doesn't look of the requisite quality either.

I agree with this. Ojha needs to be persevered with for a while and more technically correct batsmen should be considered for test cricket (not the likes of Raina who are more suited to limited overs cricket).

Considering that the batting has been below par, bowling sub-standard and fielding not being something to shout about, its not been a very good series on any front. Not too many positives to take away but plenty of negatives to think about.

 

[Bun]

Bun, you are looking at things the wrong way (in terms of looking for replacements for the big guns). To put it simply, you can't just 'replace' Sachin, Dravid and Laxman, all three could be considered ATG batsmen and unfortunately a drop in class with their replacements is a given. You need to stop searching for the next Sachin and just pick the best out of what you already have and hope they go well.

You will probably have a period of decline but honestly that's natural. No team can suddenly replace ATG players. It doesn't happen.

I do not harbor illusions like we're going to find exact replacements for the legends. it's impossible. but it's not a pre requisite if one looks at the current english team.

however on the bowling front, there's not even a comparison between ours and england's. then again. they still don't have legends really there also. we just need to be patient. there will be hiccups in the next year or two perhaps. but there is not an lternative to good bowlers. would love to see what fletcher can do on this front.