Peter Roebuck's assessment of New Zealand

[KiWiNiNjA]

Strange how we became one of the best one day teams in the world in that period too. Way over the top I think.

Indeed.

 

[Uppercut]

As I said, he is not the type of bowler who is going to rip a batting lineup apart. Unlike the other modern quality spinners (Murali, Kumble, Harbhajan to an extent) Vettori hasn't had the luxury of playing 60%+ of his cricket on crumbling spinner friendly pitches. Warne is obviously an exception, he would have performed well anywhere.

I don't understand what you are getting at...are you trying to say he should be dropped?

Well yeah, but even when presented with a "crumbling spinner friendly pitch", Vettori's failed to take advantage of it. His fourth-innings record is shocking for a spinner, and his record in the subcontinent is equally weak.

I'm obviously not trying to say he should be dropped, i just found it interesting that his record was much weaker than i'd first thought (too much so that i can write it off on playing on unfriendly pitches). Noone's saying he should be dropped, i'd have him in pretty much any team outside the subcontinent for his all-round abilities.

 

[Polo23]

I don't think his record is necessarily poor. Sure, when comparing to guys like Warne or Murali, but Vettori isn't that sort of bowler. As I said, he isn't going to rip a side apart. Statistics really don't tell the whole story.

 

[Furball]

Think the best way of describing Vettori in Tests is "competent."

He's not outstanding, nor is he dire, although I think he'd struggle for a place in most other sides on his bowling alone.

He's an absolutely gun ODI bowler though.

 

[Athlai]

Vettori is a highly challenging bowler but he doesn't get batsman out, he has to make them get themselves out. Just doesn't turn the ball enough, his flight and variations are excellent but without massive spin you'll never be as effective as the Warne's and the Murali's.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I don't think his record is necessarily poor. Sure, when comparing to guys like Warne or Murali, but Vettori isn't that sort of bowler. As I said, he isn't going to rip a side apart. Statistics really don't tell the whole story.

Exactly.
Statistics don't show everything.

That being said, I don't thing he is as great as some people think he is, and I don't think he is as bad as some people think he is.

 

[Zinzan]

Thing about Vettori is those who love him overrate him greatly and those who hate him underrate him greatly, with not much in between the two.



Excellent ODI bowler though.

Bang on the money there NZT .One thing most cricket fans fail to realise about Vettori's bowling is that he's generally likely to be equally as effective (or ineffective) whether its day 1 or day 5 as opposed to most spinners who generally come into their own as the pitch breaks up. Thats why as someone correctly pointed out in an earlier post, his last innings bowling stats are pretty ordinary. The reason for this is simply one; Vettori's skill is beating batsman in the air with his subtle variations & not off the pitch. We all know he rarely actually "spins" the ball and to be honest it always surprises me greatly when he does get one to turn. In fact if anything, he seems to perform better in the first innings of a game which is really quite bizarre for a spinner.

Personally, I don't overrate or underrate him. I think he's a decent enough test cricketer & certainly New Zealand's best spin option at the moment, but he's by no means a match winner (barring the minnows) & never has been.

Having said all that, he's a fantastic ODI & 20/20 bowler, right up there with the best in the world.

 

[Flem274*]

Vettori doesn't tear through sides, however he always chips in and can get crucial wickets. He's reliable, he gets a few wickets per innings, he doesn't give anything away and is very good in tandem with another bowler. Also, his allround ability can both save matches and help us set them up (in happier times when we had a top order).

 

[Zinzan]

Vettori doesn't tear through sides, however he always chips in and can get crucial wickets. He's reliable, he gets a few wickets per innings, he doesn't give anything away and is very good in tandem with another bowler. Also, his allround ability can both save matches and help us set them up (in happier times when we had a top order).

Precisely my point, consistent & more-than-handy, but by no-means a match winner.

 

[Polo23]

Vettori would be far far more effective with a decent pace bowler bowling at the other end. Bond and Vettori in tandem would be a fantastic combination, it is a shame we didn't get to see more of them. Perhaps Franklin and Vettori can be something similar.

 

[Flem274*]

Precisely my point, consistent & more-than-handy, but by no-means a match winner.

Sorry, I was skim reading this page.

 

[Uppercut]

Precisely my point, consistent & more-than-handy, but by no-means a match winner.

You what?

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/bdeshvnz/engine/match/361758.html



Noone is ever saying stats do tell the whole story, but what they do tell you is that Vettori doesn't take many wickets and the majority of those he does take are of tail-enders or poor-quality batsmen. He's a better bowler than the stats suggest for sure, but on the other hand he's not as dangerous as one would think just by watching him.

 

[Zinzan]

You what?

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/bdeshvnz/engine/match/361758.html


.

And this scorecard is relevant how? If you read my summary on Vettori's bowling 3-4 posts earlier in this thread, you'd see that I said I didn't consider him a match-winner barring the minnows

 

[Uppercut]

And this scorecard is relevant how? If you read my summary on Vettori's bowling 3-4 posts earlier in this thread, you'd see that I said I didn't consider him a match-winner barring the minnows

No bother, i just thought this particular minnow match was relevant because Vettori did it all by himself.

 

[Zinzan]

No bother, i just thought this particular minnow match was relevant because Vettori did it all by himself.

Ah, I see & you're right, he performed like an absolute world beater against them

 

[Nutter]

Vettori is a highly challenging bowler but he doesn't get batsman out, he has to make them get themselves out. Just doesn't turn the ball enough, his flight and variations are excellent but without massive spin you'll never be as effective as the Warne's and the Murali's.

And he doesn't even have to turn all of them, just occasionally throw one in that rips across the batsman. But none of his deliveries ever turn much, if at all.