***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012

[vandem]

Give me your 3 and I might give you my 6.

Bruce Martin (kept out by debutant Tuffey who took 0-75 and 0-52)

Aldridge (Cricket: Aldridge, Bracewell set to debut - Sport - NZ Herald News) (kept out by Patel who took 0-91 and 0-51)

Wells (kept out by Boult ?, who did OK)

At least Wells has a chance of making a test XI one day, but is now obviously behind Ellis in selector's thinking for the current series. Aldridge too far down the pecking order. Martin possibly, given lack of progress from Nick Beard, all it could take may be a Vettori injury and a subcontinent tour.

 

[Hurricane]

Franklin's technique is flawed - he compensates for this with confidence and self belief in the Plunket shield but gets found out with better bowling in tests.

Also this is just a personal issue I have with him that no one else will mind. I want my 5th bowler to get through his 10 overs a day quickly and efficiently. Franklin takes a long time to get through his overs as he has a long run up. Ryder is faster and is off half as many steps. Not that Ryder is playing but just saying.

Regarding Nicol - yep sucks that he is playing and that we can't have Brownlie or Ryder. Lets just hope he plays above himself. He is in the team now so I will back him until he gives me reason not to.
WHEN he does play it will be discussed behind closed doors if McCullum should drop down to 5 to let Rob play in his "natural" position (or at least the one he has been in the past few seasons).

 

[Kippax]

^^ is that the official team?

It's a good logical team, almost picks itself again. Nicol takes Brownlie's spot. Arnel & Ellis the leftovers

Not 100% sure they will be leftovers. I've been told Ellis and Arnel should best be viewed as an attempt by the panel to make canny horses-for-courses selections in the hope of a juicy green nibbler, the likes not seen since 2002/2003.

Look at that appalling long-range forecast, could even be "let's play a friendly one-dayer with a red ball" job, as they did at Carisbrook once -
Dunedin Weather - NZ Weather Forecast Dunedin from MetService.com
Friendly Match: New Zealand v India at Dunedin, 21 Dec 1998

 

[straw man]

Not 100% sure they will be leftovers. I've been told Ellis and Arnel should best be viewed as an attempt by the panel to make canny horses-for-courses selections in the hope of a juicy green nibbler, the likes not seen since 2002/2003.

Look at that appalling long-range forecast, could even be "let's play a friendly one-dayer with a red ball" job, as they did at Carisbrook once -
Dunedin Weather - NZ Weather Forecast Dunedin from MetService.com
Friendly Match: New Zealand v India at Dunedin, 21 Dec 1998

Hrmm, Nicol to earn a test cap, never face a ball and then be replaced by Brownlie for the next?

Personally I think Nicol is as good a chance as Franklin and Van Wyk to score runs - ie. not very good, but I wish him all the best. I do like his general approach to the game.

I will be MAD if Andy Ellis plays instead of Boult though.

 

[Hurricane]

Not 100% sure they will be leftovers. I've been told Ellis and Arnel should best be viewed as an attempt by the panel to make canny horses-for-courses selections in the hope of a juicy green nibbler, the likes not seen since 2002/2003.

[/url]

What are we saying here play 6 bowlers instead of 5 if it is a green track.

 

[Flem274*]

Franklin's technique is flawed - he compensates for this with confidence and self belief in the Plunket shield but gets found out with better bowling in tests.

I'd say a lack of confidence and self belief are Franklin's biggest issues.

 

[Kippax]

Yeah, possibly Ellis for Nicol.

You'll always get the 'why on earth can five seamers do what four can't' argument, but part of the thinking is that if you put any five Kiwi seamers together, for whatever reason one is virtually guaranteed to be "off". That will be then be the leak, the rupture in the hull that sinks our chances in a low-scoring Test.

 

[Mike5181]

Yeah, possibly Ellis for Nicol.

You'll always get the 'why on earth can five seamers do what four can't' argument, but part of the thinking is that if you put any five Kiwi seamers together, for whatever reason one is virtually guaranteed to be "off". That will be then be the leak, the rupture in the hull that sinks our chances in a low-scoring Test.

There's absolutely no way we would go into a test match against South Africa with four seamers + Vettori + Ellis. That would be a really really bad batting line up.

1.McCullum
2.Guptill
3.Williamson
4.Taylor
5.Vettori
6.Watling+
7.Ellis
8.Bracewell
9.Southee
10.Boult
11.Martin

Really?

 

[Kippax]

I don't want to completely dismiss what a five-month dose of a 'you are good enough!!' placebo can do, but I've seen Nicol play around his front pad and nicked out to nothing shots for a very long period of time against bowlers of much lesser quality, and that probably colours my view.

 

[Hurricane]

I'd say a lack of confidence and self belief are Franklin's biggest issues.

I have had this debate before. I think either with you PEWS or athlai or all three.

My position, and I appreciate I am alone in this view, is:
No amount of confidence will help you score runs against Dale Steyn if you are not very good.
While through share will power you can make runs against Michael Mason (provided you are a FC quality batsman).

Last time I saw Franklin in tests his foot work was horrible. This was the reason he kept getting out.

The only argument you can make that will sway me to your way of thinking is if you claim he wasn't getting his foot to the pitch of the ball because he was nervous and didn't believe in himself. It just looked so awful that I find it hard to believe that nerves were the reason for it. Likewise Fulton had technical issues.

It is my theory that you don't have to be technically correct in New Zealand FC cricket to succeed but that you do in tests. I think part of this is due to the speed of the bowling in tests being higher and the bowling just being more canny and more testing.

 

[Hurricane]

I don't want to completely dismiss what a five-month dose of a 'you are good enough!!' placebo can do, but I've seen Nicol play around his front pad and nicked out to nothing shots for a very long period of time against bowlers of much lesser quality, and that probably colours my view.

I don't think anyones excited that he is in the team but surely you think Nicol's batting>Ellis' batting

And if you do - you will think that we should at least play 5 specialist bats.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

1.McCullum
2.Guptill
3.Williamson
4.Taylor
5.Vettori
6.Watling+
7.Ellis
8.Bracewell
9.Southee
10.Boult
11.Martin

Indeed.

A ridiculous line-up, that is.

McCullum/Guptill/Nicol/Taylor/Williamson/Watling/Vettori/Southee/Bracewell/Boult/Martin

 

[Kippax]

Yeah, maybe only by as little as 10 runs total if a really village-style match is on the cards. If it looked the sort of pitch Ellis could take 3/40 I find room for him at someone's expense.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Yeah, maybe only by as little as 10 runs total if a really village-style match is on the cards. If it looked the sort of pitch Ellis could take 3/40 I find room for him at someone's expense.

So you'd play 5 bowlers plus Vettori?

Martin
Bracewell
Boult
Southee
Ellis
Vettori

 

[Zinzan]

Greatbatch & Parore on Ryder - Radio interview

 

[Hurricane]

Yeah, maybe only by as little as 10 runs total if a really village-style match is on the cards. If it looked the sort of pitch Ellis could take 3/40 I find room for him at someone's expense.

5 bowlers is more than enough - 6 bowlers will lead to people being underbowled. The only argument I can see for it - is if you think a bowler may get injured. And since I don't see Hamish Bennet's name on the team sheet - it is unlikely.

 

[Kippax]

No, they don't want any 'Vettori keeping it tight' stuff here. The theory I'm hearing bandied about is they want five seamers with a guy they can cast off solely based on on-the-day form. Basically going all out to dismiss SAF in 40 overs. Then lusty hitting gets a lead, then SAF gets all flustered and teutonic, bewildered by the sheer sluttiness and impropriety of it all.

 

[Hurricane]

Cool thanks Kippax. I can't say I agree with having 5 seamers. (I usually advocate 3 seamers and a spinner)

If I were picking the team I would have put in Wells for Boult. And much to Straw Man's chagrin would have a serious think about Ellis for Boult.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

You can tell Hurricane is a **** because....

If I were picking the team I would have put in Wells for Boult. And much to Straw Man's chagrin would have a serious think about Ellis for Boult.

 

[Hurricane]

You can tell Hurricane is a **** because....

GAGF

On a serious note - Wouldn't mind batting down to 8 against saffers - Southee and Bracewell are both good 9's so would like another bat at 8 given Nicol is in the team and more importantly because of their bowling attack.

Bottom line - will support whoever they pick. Didn't mind the team you posted And you are correct that Nicol at 3 and Williamson at 5 is a good idea.