*Official* English Football Season 2012-13

[grecian]

We'll see. I suspect that even the tabloids know enough of our tournament record not to go OTT nowadays. As was the case before the Euros IIRC. Then add Gerrard's comments about how we aren't even certain to qualify, and expectations are lower that was the case a few years back. What does worry me is the OTT reaction to Wilshere's performance, including some comments from guys like Lampard who really should know better having been part of the 'golden generation' and therefore knowing what it's like not to remotely live uip to expectations.

The performance was good in parts, and there was far more flexibility than we'd been led to believe from Hodgson. And it helped massively that guys like Rooney and Gerrard actually lived up to their billing. But truth is that if Ronaldino and Goldilocks had done what they should have done with the penalty and open goal then we'd all be shrugging our shoulders today.

Hmm, TBF I'm as down about England ATM, then most. But I think you've got to give credit when it's due. We were actually very good at times, the movement was superb. Of course Wilshere is going to be hyped to hell, because he's the exact player England have been praying for, for years, doesn't give it away, but can attack and defend. Yet he is very good, so at least the hype is for a worthy player. Was a game reminiscent of prime Gazza.

TBH Brazils pen was soft, and we had a better shout, so the inevitable "whatifs" in the match weren't particularly slanted against ing-er-land.

Not saying we'll win the World Cup or owt, but it was a promising match, and you don't see many of them from England nowadays.

 

[grecian]

That was because Harry hadn't got the job as they all wanted so the knives were out.

Yep, if this performance had been under him, we'd have massive hype all over the 'papers. St georges crosses sprayed on the front page et al. Which is why it's good news he isn't manager, the Scum is in particular love with 'arry. Remember the tabs didn't like Sir Alf or Sir Bobby either.

 

[wpdavid]

Hmm, TBF I'm as down about England ATM, then most. But I think you've got to give credit when it's due. We were actually very good at times, the movement was superb. Of course Wilshere is going to be hyped to hell, because he's the exact player England have been praying for, for years, doesn't give it away, but can attack and defend. Yet he is very good, so at least the hype is for a worthy player. Was a game reminiscent of prime Gazza.

TBH Brazils pen was soft, and we had a better shout, so the inevitable "whatifs" in the match weren't particularly slanted against ing-er-land.

Not saying we'll win the World Cup or owt, but it was a promising match, and you don't see many of them from England nowadays.

Yeah, I didn't mean to be too down on the performance. It was more watchable and more coherent than we've seen from the national side for ages. Not just from the youngsters finding their feet at this level, but from most of the established players too. And I do agree that Wilshere is a real prospect, but my natural inclination is to stay away from the hype about our youngsters being world class when really they're extremely promising.

Anyway, with all the talk of Wilshere reminding us of Gazza in Italia 1990, was anyone else reminded of Hoddle's debut goal against Bulgaria (below) when Lampard side footed the winner?

1979 (November 22) England 2-Bulgaria 0 (EC Qualifier).avi - YouTube

 

[BoyBrumby]

Must admit I didn't watch the game (need Silvio Berlusconi-strength viagra to get it up for friendlies now), but aren't Brazil ranked at the all time low in the FIFA top of the pops?

18th, I think I read. Obviously being the host nation and not having to qualify for the WC must be a factor, but the same would've been true after they won in 94 and they didn't drop so low.

Anyway, long story short: it's not a great Brazil team and it was probably a good time to play them.

 

[sledger]

Tbf though, in all my life I can't remember a time when someone or other wasn't saying that Brazil weren't as good as they once were. Even in 2002 when they were actually really good, nobody really seemed to fancy them until they reached the semi-finals of the WC.

 

[Ikki]

It is a big call, but: if England had Wilshire in the Euros IMO they would have beaten Italy. They really lacked a player between the forward and midfield lines and suffered hugely because of it. Imagine a Wilshire sitting on top of Pirlo and threading those same little passes for the wingers. England would not have been dominated like they were. They asked Rooney to do that role and he was **** to say the least, but it's far more natural for Wilshire. That's why - regardless of how good Brazil are exactly - England actually were fluid and nice to watch.

 

[Furball]

Why couldn't Gerrard have done it?

 

[grecian]

Must admit I didn't watch the game (need Silvio Berlusconi-strength viagra to get it up for friendlies now), but aren't Brazil ranked at the all time low in the FIFA top of the pops?

18th, I think I read. Obviously being the host nation and not having to qualify for the WC must be a factor, but the same would've been true after they won in 94 and they didn't drop so low.

Anyway, long story short: it's not a great Brazil team and it was probably a good time to play them.

Yeah, but TBF Brumbers, I didn't even mention the quality of the Brazilians in my post. England played well, and seemed to pass the ball fluidly, and Jack was as has been labored massively Gazza 1990 like.

No reason to go into hyperbolic over-drive, but it was nice to see.

oh and Fifa World-rankings

 

[grecian]

Yeah, I didn't mean to be too down on the performance. It was more watchable and more coherent than we've seen from the national side for ages. Not just from the youngsters finding their feet at this level, but from most of the established players too. And I do agree that Wilshere is a real prospect, but my natural inclination is to stay away from the hype about our youngsters being world class when really they're extremely promising.

Anyway, with all the talk of Wilshere reminding us of Gazza in Italia 1990, was anyone else reminded of Hoddle's debut goal against Bulgaria (below) when Lampard side footed the winner?

1979 (November 22) England 2-Bulgaria 0 (EC Qualifier).avi - YouTube

Yeah, Hoddle, just yet another genius on early showing, that never quite made it to World-class player, hope Wilshere, can break the, Gulp: Hoddle, Brooking, Coppell, Wilkins, Robson, Waddle, Beardsley, Gascoine, Shearer, Beckham, Owen, Gerard, Lampard, Scholes, Cole, Rooney glass ceiling, of going from a good international player to great.

Lineker gets a pass, because he really did everything he could with his ability, but I'm not sure quality-wise he deserves to be called a great.

 

[Pothas]

Tbf though, in all my life I can't remember a time when someone or other wasn't saying that Brazil weren't as good as they once were. Even in 2002 when they were actually really good, nobody really seemed to fancy them until they reached the semi-finals of the WC.

Yeah Brazil not been the 'proper' Brazil since 1982.

From what I understand they were a shambles going into 2002, really struggled in qualyfying so we will see what they can come up with in 2014.

 

[Ikki]

Why couldn't Gerrard have done it?

I don't think he has the legs anymore. He's still very fit and still has a burst of speed but post-injuries doesn't have the same speed in changing direction - especially running with pace. Right now he is doing brilliantly playing that holding midfield role for us and if England can replicate a system which keeps him doing that they have a shot.

Some don't rate Parker, but I do. I think a midfield of Parker-Gerrard-Wilshire can not only keep the ball but will have high-work rate with 2 of them very capable of creating for the front players, and chipping in with the odd goal.

 

[grecian]

Yeah Brazil not been the 'proper' Brazil since 1982.

From what I understand they were a shambles going into 2002, really struggled in qualyfying so we will see what they can come up with in 2014.

An interesting point, I think they've become more pragmatic since the great team of '82 lost, so I kind of understand the misery of us creaky ones. 94 was just average. Yet I never got the slagging off of the '02 side, three or four great players, will generally do it for you any WC.

 

[Furball]

Brazil in 2002 were very, very good. I never understood the criticism they got.

 

[grecian]

Brazil in 2002 were very, very good. I never understood the criticism they got.

Me neither, in England it was partly because the press had turned against Sven, so they had to say losing narrowly against a good Brazil side in conditions much more suited to them, was a horribly bad thing.

 

[sledger]

Yeah Brazil not been the 'proper' Brazil since 1982.

From what I understand they were a shambles going into 2002, really struggled in qualyfying so we will see what they can come up with in 2014.

Yeah, I seem to remember the 2002 qualifying campaign was an absolute debacle, so much so that they nearly missed out on qualification. I think they had 4 different managers during that period too.

It's a strange one, because I remember their team at the time was severely disjointed throughout qualification, and they lacked a striker. Perhaps they were fortunate that Ronaldo regained fitness from his nasty injury just in time for the start of the tournament, and that he was incredibly great.

 

[sledger]

I also seem to remember that the strange incident involving an ancient Romario throwing a chicken at a supporter occurred around that time also...

 

[marc71178]

Must admit I didn't watch the game (need Silvio Berlusconi-strength viagra to get it up for friendlies now), but aren't Brazil ranked at the all time low in the FIFA top of the pops?

18th, I think I read. Obviously being the host nation and not having to qualify for the WC must be a factor, but the same would've been true after they won in 94 and they didn't drop so low.

Yeah but in 1994 they had the benefit of a WC win in their recent history which helps keep the rankings up. I think a long succession of friendlies, often without all the full strength team leading to sub-par performances, is the main reason for the fall.

 

[grecian]

Sorry for the link to the Scum, but John ****ing Barnes

 

[The Sean]

Sorry for the link to the Scum, but John ****ing Barnes

I might be missing something, but why does an initiative celebrating the English FA contain Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish footballers?

 

[wpdavid]

I might be missing something, but why does an initiative celebrating the English FA contain Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish footballers?

I suppose it's because of the FA's role in domestic football as well as the national side. Although by that reckoning they should also include Ricky Villa and Eric Cantona.