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*Official* England in West Indies 2022

Frost

U19 Debutant
England don't just need a new head, they need a new spine

Changes have to happen in the selectors, coaching staff, support staff, and real effort needs to be put into improving the standard of County cricket.

Fixing England's Test team is a 5-10 year long project.
They need to copy exactly what nz did. That took about a decade, but with England's resources they can do it quicker I guess.
Based on what I have seen I think the team should look sonthing like this
Burns
Lee's
Root
Pope
Crawly
Stokes
Baistow
Leech
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Not great, but better.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
I've said this before but the polyannaish guff coming from the likes of Collingwood, Trescothick and now Root has surely passed from the realm of empty PR speak and into that of being actively disrespectful to the paying fans. Like, how stupid do they think English cricket fans are that they think they'll buy what this lot are selling?
That's 100% how I'd feel. I get it, they're trying to protect your own. But you have an obligation to your public, who stumps up their hard earned and their precious time into watching the crap that team rolls out.

Fixing England's Test team is a 5-10 year long project.
Yep, it is. But when you say Test team, you mean their top 6-7. Their bowling line-up was never really broken, but they destroyed it anyway for good measure. So that when their batting line-up inevitably failed, they had less than their best bowling line-up to try and make amends. That marries into the first part of my post - how galling it must be as an England fan, and they're a loyal bunch, that not only does their top 6-7 suck (minus Root) but they're being denied their best two bowlers and the ability to still win Tests against the likes of Windies. You'd probably cop it if they were playing young bowlers, but not when one is 32-year-old woeful on the road Woakes.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
That's 100% how I'd feel. I get it, they're trying to protect your own. But you have an obligation to your public, who stumps up their hard earned and their precious time into watching the crap that team rolls out.
Im sure their supporters, bless their hearts, would appreciate some more honesty at this point
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Im sure their supporters, bless their hearts, would appreciate some more honesty at this point
Well yeah, having read Trescothick's weak as piss comment about 'one bad day', I have no doubt they would.

No team ever gets better with that sort of approach. If you were ****e, say so in a way that challenges the team to get better without making them feel demoralised by it. But that, plus Collingwood's rubbish comment after the Ashes (I forget it, something about we should give them medals or some guff) just smacks of a hard conversation-free zone, where everyone is free to fail a few times without fear of retribution.

Jeepers, maybe they do need Justin Langer.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The thing is, if they wanted to move on to a different bowling attack, you don't remove all experience at once. Like I said, the simpler option would have been to select Broad instead of Woakes, who is proven failure away from home, even more so than Broad. But Strauss loves his #batdeep and a #8 that can bat. And that is where the issue is. They got folks, including Strauss, who have bought into their own hype and think they are much better than they actually are, at all of their jobs. I can see why Anderson and Broad have been prima donnas if this is how Strauss let them be. And now, as usual with a team of such folks, when the in-fighting starts, it never ends without collateral damage and that is what England cricket is now. :laugh:
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well yeah, having read Trescothick's weak as piss comment about 'one bad day', I have no doubt they would.

No team ever gets better with that sort of approach. If you were ****e, say so in a way that challenges the team to get better without making them feel demoralised by it. But that, plus Collingwood's rubbish comment after the Ashes (I forget it, something about we should give them medals or some guff) just smacks of a hard conversation-free zone, where everyone is free to fail a few times without fear of retribution.

Jeepers, maybe they do need Justin Langer.
They do.
 

Xix2565

International Debutant
The thing is, if they wanted to move on to a different bowling attack, you don't remove all experience at once. Like I said, the simpler option would have been to select Broad instead of Woakes, who is proven failure away from home, even more so than Broad. But Strauss loves his #batdeep and a #8 that can bat. And that is where the issue is. They got folks, including Strauss, who have bought into their own hype and think they are much better than they actually are, at all of their jobs. I can see why Anderson and Broad have been prima donnas if this is how Strauss let them be. And now, as usual with a team of such folks, when the in-fighting starts, it never ends without collateral damage and that is what England cricket is now. :laugh:
You mean Anderson, because Broad is not great in WI.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I think Root should stay on as captain as he is excellent at winning the toss. He has the highest toss win percentage of any captain with over 50 Tests as captain.
Its the equivalent of Rahane being one of the "luckiest" batsman since 2020 or whatever. You wonder how much worse it could have been had it not been for this luck. :laugh:
 

Spikey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
i mean it doesn't actually matter who their captain is. their batters suck their bowlers suck and they've got like 5 different keepers who are maybe good enough. just rotate the captaincy from game to game. you'd think people would look at paine and cummins becoming captain and realise oh so basically anyone can do it.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
i mean it doesn't actually matter who their captain is. their batters suck their bowlers suck and they've got like 5 different keepers who are maybe good enough. just rotate the captaincy from game to game. you'd think people would look at paine and cummins becoming captain and realise oh so basically anyone can do it.
That's the thing though ..think we seriously over rate the importance of the role of captaincy. Yes it helps, but if the team is bad, as ours is, it's just bad. And not saying Root is blameless, but it's a bit of scapegoating to be honest.
The infrastructure, team selections, coaching and training is what's needed. Border couldn't make that team a winning one over the top tier test teams at the moment.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
That's the thing though ..think we seriously over rate the importance of the role of captaincy. Yes it helps, but if the team is bad, as ours is, it's just bad. And not saying Root is blameless, but it's a bit of scapegoating to be honest.
The infrastructure, team selections, coaching and training is what's needed. Border couldn't make that team a winning one over the top tier test teams at the moment.
Yeah, good point. Root isn't a good captain, in fact he's actually hopeless. But it's just a real easy option to criticise him for his captaincy, when there are 1000 other holes in the boat that need plugging before you come to the topic of his leadership.

Not sure if we overrate the importance of captaincy, but we certainly are (or the media is, or some people are) overstating the part that Joe Root's captaincy has played in their woes. Having said that, I still think they need a new one to free up Root to do his main job, which is to score runs at over 50 per innings - which hasn't happened since he's been captain.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Another disappointing series in the Caribbean after tiny shoots of hope in the first two Tests (mainly hitting over 300 in three innings out of four) the usual and predictable problems returned when the pitch offered a hint of anything off the straight and without a number of key bowlers (for various reasons) we looked tidy but at times wholly ineffective.

The obvious question marks over Root are completely fair and had we any obvious candidates to replace him I’m sure he’d be moved on or he’d take himself out of the firing line. All things must be considered no matter how whacky the options may seem. You never ideally want to pick a captain that isn’t in the best XI, but we barely have half a side that could be considered certainties when fully fit. Ben Stokes is one of those definite picks but I sincerely hope we don’t add more to his plate, I’d settle for a full all-rounder role for Stokes without any other responsibilities.

Naturally the entire domestic set up and schedule is scrutinised and criticised in equal measure, as is the quality of cricketers earning a living in county cricket and the pitches we play on in the CC. It isn’t solely down to Root as to why we’re currently so poor we simply don’t have good enough batsmen to set Test match victories up and so county cricket must be investigated and improvements worked out, this is not an overnight resolution.

As an England squad going forward into this summer, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, Stuart Broad, Jimmy Anderson, Jofra Archer and Mark Wood are the only players that would be guaranteed spots in an England squad (say of 15) if fully fit. For me I’d stick with Dan Lawrence as I really think he has something, admittedly how he copes when his technical issues are exposed will decide how long a run he gets. Other than that you can stick Lees, Crawley, Burns, Sibley, Pope, Bairstow, Buttler, Vince, and any other form players at the time in a hat and pull them out at random. I would like to see Pope come again, but I’d also want to see him score plenty of CC runs first.

The bowling depth is much deeper, especially in home conditions. If Anderson and Broad are available they must play in the New Zealand series, even if they’re rotated. Pacey options including Wood, Archer, Mahmood and Stone could potentially be exciting, then those that tend to be effective in our conditions such as Woakes, Robinson and Overton will be in with a shout (especially Robinson). Liam Norwell and Sam Cook can continue to knock on the door.
 

Frost

U19 Debutant
So is Archer done? I mean is he going to be like the Shane bond of England. "Well it's not our best team, Archer is due to come back" and Ollie Robinson? Just forget about him, if you can't keep yourself fit to play for your country then you got to start asking questions.
 

Woodster

International Captain
A fully fit Archer would still make the England squad, however I appreciate the term ‘fully fit’ is easier to write than it is for Archer to achieve.

Not sure Robinson should be tossed aside just yet without a chance to prove his stamina on the back of his impressive start to Test cricket.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't think we're in a position that we can discard anyone as good as those 2 or Wood or Stone, but honestly thinking of them having long injury-free careers just seems fanciful at this point.
 

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