NZ Test Match Summer News and Thoughts

[Spikey]

nz you can be the same lame arse dudes you have been for most of the past 100 years and play 3 bowlers and dan.........or you can take a chance. what is it ****s?

 

[straw man]

nz you can be the same lame arse dudes you have been for most of the past 100 years and play 3 bowlers and dan.........or you can take a chance. what is it ****s?

You're just jealous of Dan.

jus sayin'

 

[Flem274*]

For me, these are the options.

1) Vettori in, Boult out

This is the conservative option, and while it's harsh it's consistent with the structure of the side we have had for a while now.

2) Vettori in, Southee out

Southee was the lesser of the bpwlers against Australia, so if we drop a bowler on performance it's him.

3) Vettori in, Guptill out

My pet loony theory is almost worth a crack, and ensures the best eleven players in the country take the field. Vettori, unlike Ryder, has a technique so mad it works, and maybe it could defy logic as high as opening.

4) Vettori out for Zimbabwe, seamers on trial

Vettori is rested against Zimbabwe, and we see who has the worst record after four tests this summer. Logical for us, but an insult to Zimbabwe and test cricket. Also, Zimbabwe might beat us, and that would be a very bad look. Not something I'm comfortable with, but it has logic to it.

5) Vettori out

Thierry Henry likes this.

Ryder or Brownlie opening is very unlikely to work imo. And if Watling takes the gloves, I'll rage.

 

[Hurricane]

@ spikey OMG you are right thank you for opening my eyes,

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Going in with five bowlers against South Africa would be such a mistake.

Because things have worked so well when NZ play 3 bowlers + Vettori?

Vettori has more value as a batsman, imo. But as others have said, of course it will be Boult making way for Vettori.

 

[Spikey]

i can confirm if you take a chance all the cool kids will be your friend

 

[straw man]

Do you think the selectors will treat the Zimbabwe as a trial match for the South Africa series, as Glenn Turner seems to be suggesting?

Cricket | Best players not necessarily in Black... | Stuff.co.nz

I can't imagine any selectors not picking Vettori. But I do think they might play four seamers against Zimbabwe even if they aren't planning on doing so against South Africa. Alternatively, they could be planning to play 5 bowlers vs South Africa, in which case they might play all 6 batsmen against Zimbabwe to have a virtual bat-off.


If Vettori is going to play with four seam bowlers, then we need a keeper to make a lot more runs than Young seems capable of. Who that is I don't know - Young has a pretty decent first class record in recent seasons, so it's hard to say that Van Wyk or de Boorder will score any more based solely on their first class stats.

If a batsman is to be sacrificed it should be Guptill, who simply isn't good enough. But then there isn't an opener. (NO to Brownlie, by the way.) Anyone know if Watling would consider taking the gloves and opening?

My internal jury on Jesse is very much out. His career seems to be on a Greatbatch-like graph. The comparisons are even stronger if he's asked to open. Given Guptill's fielding skills and the lack of opening alternatives, I can see him being selected ahead of Ryder.

If they select just three seamers, I'd drop Southee. Yes, he bowled a couple of good overs after lunch at Hobart, but he's had a lot of chances and hasn't looked like leading a bowling attack. And it seems Boult can slog a quick 15-20 just as well.

Good post and I read that Turner article with interest. Firstly I disagree with the notion that we should 'rest' top players because we're playing Zimbabwe. Martin and Vettori like all the others will have been out of four/five day cricket for months, it's disrespectful to Zimbabwe, is a risk considering they almost beat us not long ago and it annoys me when other teams have done it to us.

Secondly we cannot 'rest' Young to give De Boorder a chance. Either we straight up drop Young and replace with De Boorder or we don't. Agree with your point about whether De Boorder or Van Wyk would really be better with the bat than Young at international level or not.

Turner also suggests bringing in Astle or Nethula sooner rather than later. The idea has some merit, though neither has strung together more than one impressive season. It's worth considering when we're touring Windies, India and SL over the winter and then next season. I'm also the first to admit I don't know the right approach to developing a leg-spinner - whether to take softly-softly approach or throw them in the deep end, or somewhere in between.

 

[straw man]

For me, these are the options.

Dropping Ryder not an option?

 

[Mike5181]

I don't really see it as going in with five bowlers though; I see it more as "four bowlers and Vettori".

"Five bowlers" sounds stupid but so does "eight batsmen". I suppose you could say that your keeping position inadequacies mean you need to strengthen the batting.

The last time we went in with "eight batsmen" we got bowled out for 150. It's the three best seam bowlers + Vettori that should be our bowling attack.

1.McCullum
2.Guptill
3.Williamson
4.Taylor
5.Brownlie
6.Ryder
7.Van Wyk+
8.Vettori
9.Bracewell
10.Southee
11.Martin

12.Boult

 

[M0rphin3]

McCullum (+)
Boam
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Brownlie
Franklin
Vettori
Dougeh
Southee
Boult

When will they learn that this is what the team should be???

AWTA so much, about time. Chris in for Boult though.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Southee's average is getting more and more Samiesque. How poorly does he have to perform to be under the microscope? He bowls well in very small patches which are surrounded on all sides by the buffet cart.

 

[Hurricane]

For me, these are the options.

1) Vettori in, Boult out

This is the conservative option, and while it's harsh it's consistent with the structure of the side we have had for a while now.

2) Vettori in, Southee out

Southee was the lesser of the bpwlers against Australia, so if we drop a bowler on performance it's him.

3) Vettori in, Guptill out

My pet loony theory is almost worth a crack, and ensures the best eleven players in the country take the field. Vettori, unlike Ryder, has a technique so mad it works, and maybe it could defy logic as high as opening.

4) Vettori out for Zimbabwe, seamers on trial

Vettori is rested against Zimbabwe, and we see who has the worst record after four tests this summer. Logical for us, but an insult to Zimbabwe and test cricket. Also, Zimbabwe might beat us, and that would be a very bad look. Not something I'm comfortable with, but it has logic to it.

5) Vettori out

Thierry Henry likes this.

Ryder or Brownlie opening is very unlikely to work imo. And if Watling takes the gloves, I'll rage.

Post highly disorganised and a lack of bolded fonts IMHO.

Good summary of the options what is your recommendation.

 

[Hurricane]

Southee's average is getting more and more Samiesque. How poorly does he have to perform to be under the microscope? He bowls well in very small patches which are surrounded on all sides by the buffet cart.

his country called on him when Taylor threw him the ball after lunch and he responded by bowling his very fastest and swinging it. He doesn't get many cheap Steve Finn style wickets to help his average because people know about his bowling and they are careful against him. If anything he needs to bring the ball back into the right hander more with his off cutter to keep people guessing. Southee will come down to a 31 or 32 average sooner or later.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

He'd looked insipid and uninspired all test long compared to every other seam bowler (including Mitchell Starc) on a deck made for seam bowling. Yes, he sometimes bowls good spells that don't take wickets, but quite frankly what's the point of that? We need strike bowlers as we can use Vettori to tie down an end. I'm not necessarily saying he should be the one to make way if a bowler has to, but his name shouldn't be set in stone based on either performance or attitude.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

The last time we went in with "eight batsmen" we got bowled out for 150. It's the three best seam bowlers + Vettori that should be our bowling attack.

Yeah, NZ need a spinner because of all the raging turners in NZ. Oh Vettori doesn't spin it? Well, we need someone to bowl 30-40 overs a day and hold up an end, and be all non-threatening an all. If they can't drop a batsman for Vettori, I'd rather he didn't come back at all.

And yes, it would be nice if Southee was dropped instead of Boult. But that's not happening either.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

i can confirm if you take a chance all the cool kids will be your friend

Agree with the druggie australian toad. The situation basically is:

1. Having an extra ****ty batsmen who doesn't deserve his place

vs

2. Having an extra good bowler who DOES deserve his place

In my humble opinion ofc.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm certainly not saying he should be dropped as it'd be absolutely ridiculous given what just went on, but I still think Bracewell is the worst of the four NZ bowlers who played the Hobart Test at the moment.

Again, dropping him would be beyond ridiculous, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who ended up out of the side for a bit eventually (although Martin's eventual retirement makes this post even less relevant).

 

[Hurricane]

Agree with the druggie australian toad. The situation basically is:

1. Having an extra ****ty batsmen who doesn't deserve his place

vs

2. Having an extra good bowler who DOES deserve his place

In my humble opinion ofc.

That's a terrible summary. Apart from Guptil who is ****ty.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

That's a terrible summary. Apart from Guptil who is ****ty.

If Boult gets dropped, then it's going to be one of batsmen on the verge of being dropped (AKA a ****ty batsman) that stay in instead of him. I seriously don't think 5 bowlers, with one being Dan, is as absurd as people are making out. We just won a test match with 4 seamers ffs, let's give the idea a few more chances. It's not like we were winning tests left right and centre with the old structure.

 

[Flametree]

nz you can be the same lame arse dudes you have been for most of the past 100 years and play 3 bowlers and dan.........or you can take a chance. what is it ****s?

a) we've only been playing tests for about 80 years,

b) NZ have tried four seam bowlers before a bit, with mixed results

c) if watson were to give up bowling permanently, would that be your prescription for the australian side?