Indian Oversea test watch, how will they do?

[Woodster]

More than the two bowlers, the success can be attributed more to the 4 all rounders in the middle. England has been a strong all round team at home, just like India and Australia.

Yeah BW was wrong to say that England only have 2 bowlers at home.

However, an unbeaten home record of 3.5 years where they have drawn a series against Pakistan, drawn another one with NZ, dropped a Test to the WI and been bounced out by Ishant Sharma doesn't scream dominance.

Nobody's saying they're weak at home, but it's easy to understand why people may think that out of SA, Aus and England, India has the best chance to beat England. I don't necessarily agree with it, but surely you can understand why people think that way.

England is still a solid team at home. No one is doubting that. But the original point was that England is India's best chance this overseas season. Not a certainty that they would win. Yes I do concede that my assessment of English bowling attack was influenced a lot more by the current Ashes series and I failed to consider that they are a lot more potent in their own conditions.

But the original point still stands. Not one subcontinental team have ever won a series in South Africa or Australia
The best results achieved by India and Pakistan are 1-1 draws.

All 3 subcontinent teams have won a series in England. Pakistan's greatest Test team still lost 0-3 in Australia but managed 2-2 in England.

Guys, my original and only point on this was that England’s unbeaten 3 and a half year home record was not just down to two bowlers, as good as Jimmy, in particular, has been in that time. It is down to scoring runs in that middle order and a bowling attack that has functioned well as a unit, including Moeen as the spinner.

People then have started to pick holes in reasons why England are unbeaten in that time and no matter what, it is still a very respectable record that shows a degree of consistency and a difficulty for other sides to come over here and win a series.

As for the original point of the thread, I think this Indian side can achieve very good things abroad, if lessons have been learnt, the quality is absolutely thereabd they do have players capable of performing to a high standard away from home so there is no reason why they couldn’t give England a very good run for their money.

 

[marc71178]

England is still a solid team at home. No one is doubting that. But the original point was that England is India's best chance this overseas season. Not a certainty that they would win. Yes I do concede that my assessment of English bowling attack was influenced a lot more by the current Ashes series and I failed to consider that they are a lot more potent in their own conditions.

How on earth did you come up with Broad as being one of England's 2 key bowlers in that case then?

 

[CricAddict]

Close this thread please. Fearing the worst already.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Overreacting a bit. It wasn't a bad day on the whole. It could turn ugly if we lose a wicket early tomorrow but subcontinent teams always start badly abroad.

 

[ankitj]

This is our own gloom and doom thread.

 

[vcs]

Overreacting a bit. It wasn't a bad day on the whole. It could turn ugly if we lose a wicket early tomorrow but subcontinent teams always start badly abroad.

We actually started well this time.

 

[Woodster]

Overreacting a bit. It wasn't a bad day on the whole. It could turn ugly if we lose a wicket early tomorrow but subcontinent teams always start badly abroad.

And very little preparation and acclimatisation time doesn’t help things either.

 

[Burgey]

They should play India at Brisbane, the WACA (RIP), Adelaide under lights and Hobart. That way we could all get a few extra days off between each test.

 

[Burgey]

Burgey lives in Wentworthville? Thought the billionaires park was Vaucluse or Point Piper

Born and raised in Wenty. Proud of it too.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Was last year's team better than the Imran led sides that drew against 80s Windies home and away?

Well that team drew 1-1 against West Indies and won in England and India but that was over just a 2 year period - 87-89.

This side was mostly number 2 for a considerable period of time and ultimately made it to to number 1. That side was definitely greater in terms of the personnel but I think this side's consistency over a longer period of time sans the personnel should go in their favour. Either way, it was still their best Test side in 30 years.

 

[Black_Warrior]

How on earth did you come up with Broad as being one of England's 2 key bowlers in that case then?

He has been the second best bowler. Was very good in Adelaide. Still better than Woakes and Curran and Ball and the only time England have looked like having some level of control is when Broad and Anderson were bowling together

 

[Slifer]

Well that team drew 1-1 against West Indies and won in England and India but that was over just a 2 year period - 87-89.

This side was mostly number 2 for a considerable period of time and ultimately made it to to number 1. That side was definitely greater in terms of the personnel but I think this side's consistency over a longer period of time sans the personnel should go in their favour. Either way, it was still their best Test side in 30 years.

The mid to late pakistan team of the 80s>> Pakistan last year. People really underestimate just what an achievement it was for Pakistan to draw away to wi. Wi lost one test at home (if I recall correctly) in all of the 80s. Not to mention the insane bowling attack pakistan had at times: imran, wasim , qadir, waqar (1990 at home).

 

[Black_Warrior]

Absolutely. That is a tremendous achievement and nothing this team did comes close to that but this team under the circumstances that they faced post the 09 Lahore attacks and 10 spot fixing and building a team and the consistency they achieved over a considerable period of time without names like Wasim, Waqar, Qadir and Imran is why I rate this team so much.

 

[karan316]

India has a chance to do well, depends on team selection. But no team has been a good visitor recently, so can't keep the spotlight on the Indian team alone everytime they go overseas.

 

[oblongballs]

India has a chance to do well, depends on team selection. But no team has been a good visitor recently, so can't keep the spotlight on the Indian team alone everytime they go overseas.

England have won away in SA and India this decade. Not just test matches but series. Actually I think they have an away Ashes win too.

India have drawn in SA but lost quite badly in SA and Aus.

SA have won in Aus, and Aus have won in SA.

So the spotlight has to be on Indian every time they build up a huge points tally on long, long home stretches and then entirely flop outside. If there was less talk of India as THE top side, I think there would be less scrutiny too imo.

 

[Motorwada]

England have won away in SA and India this decade. Not just test matches but series. Actually I think they have an away Ashes win too.

India have drawn in SA but lost quite badly in SA and Aus.

SA have won in Aus, and Aus have won in SA.

So the spotlight has to be on Indian every time they build up a huge points tally on long, long home stretches and then entirely flop outside. If there was less talk of India as THE top side, I think there would be less scrutiny too imo.

See this is the problem with the narrative where "away" just means Eng, SA, Aus. I guess it's a hangover from the old times when cricket was very much a white man's game and cricket is only cricket if it's played in Eng, Oz, SA.

India have won multiple series in WI and SL in the last decade. England have been unable to win in either for over a decade (Actually 13 and 17 years) and even lost in WI in 09. Neither of SA, Eng or Oz could win in Bangladesh. Neither of SA, Eng or Oz could win in UAE (Both Eng/Oz have been whitewashed there). Oz was whitewashed in SL where Ind just won 3-0.

Eng, SA, Oz wuinning in each other's countries isn't anything great and is similar to Ind winning in SL. In fact India are so dominant in Asia and WI (over 50% of test nations) that no one is able to beat them there whether Asian or non-Asian. none of SA, Eng or Oz have a stranglehold over such a large number of conditions that they are unbeatable there.

 

[vcs]

Yeah, winning in SL is an underrated feat. The pitches there tend to have some assistance for pace bowlers, so what's the excuse for Aus/Eng's dismal performances over there?

India will most likely lose in all of SA, England and Australia but as long as they aren't hammered (like in 2011-12, or the last 3 Tests in England 2014), I'm happy enough.

 

[Spark]

SL is fair enough, but literally everyone has won in WI. It's borderline meaningless.

The primary reason none of Eng, SA and Aus are able to dominate each other because all have consistently put out very good, very difficult-to-beat teams over the last 10-15 years. It's an extremely dishonest point to say that winning in WI = winning in Aus, and what the **** is this race baiting garbage thrown in?

England, SA and Aus winning in each other's countries is an exceptional achievement over the last 20 years because it's really, really difficult. No honest person considers English and Australian conditions "similar". But of course, winning a series against a high quality side containing Anderson and Broad at home is totally meaningless, compared to beating a side over which you have four times as many Test wins as losses. These are completely equally competitive situations that it totally makes sense to equate.

 

[Spark]

Yeah, winning in SL is an underrated feat. The pitches there tend to have some assistance for pace bowlers, so what's the excuse for Aus/Eng's dismal performances over there?

India will most likely lose in all of SA, England and Australia but as long as they aren't hammered (like in 2011-12, or the last 3 Tests in England 2014), I'm happy enough.

The pitches we played on didn't, tbh. Starc was magnificent, but those were spin-friendly. Same for the series in 2011 too, which Motorwada has conveniently forgotten that Australia won.

In the end I don't think people are expecting that India win, just that they don't stink the joint up like in 2012-13.

 

[GotSpin]

The pitches we played on didn't, tbh. Starc was magnificent, but those were spin-friendly. Same for the series in 2011 too, which Motorwada has conveniently forgotten that Australia won.

In the end I don't think people are expecting that India win, just that they don't stink the joint up like in 2012-13.

I daresay that Australia was fairly rooted by their preparation/complacency.