"I didn't bowl your little outswingers"

[PhoenixFire]

Seen Russel Arnold do it several times. Other than him, that odd occasion with Dhoni is about the only one I can remember.

I watched Abdul Razzaq bat against Saj Mahmood in CC with just a cap on tbh, Mahmood was bowling 150 kph and all over the place.

 

[Jamee999]

Tbh, if it's Saj, leg slip needs a helmet.

 

[Richard]

I watched Abdul Razzaq bat against Saj Mahmood in CC with just a cap on tbh, Mahmood was bowling 150 kph and all over the place.

Yeah but... y'know... me and Jono were talking about batsmen who bat without a cap...

 

[PhoenixFire]

Yeah but... y'know... me and Jono were talking about batsmen who bat without a cap...

Ah, but a cap doesn't make too much difference does it

 

[Richard]

Looks incredibly odd without one (or a helmet\sunhat). So yeah, it does make quite a difference TBH.

 

[Ikki]

Looks incredibly odd without one (or a helmet\sunhat). So yeah, it does make quite a difference TBH.

 

[Top_Cat]

Why? Given Akhtar has bowled 166kph, and a couple of others in recent times have got very close to that IIRC.

Nope, never happened.

So yeah, I'd say the measuring system that Thommo, Holding, Lillee, Imran etc went on was considerably less friendly to fast bowlers in terms of clocking high speeds. The fact that Holding and Lillee, both recognised as extremely quick bowlers at the time, both measured in the low 130s should tell you enough.

I think it was a combination of the method (averaging over the course of the ball's travel), conditions (was a very, very hot day) and that all of them were just trying to go flat out every ball which, as every quick bowler knows, makes you drop pace because your co-ordination isn't as good. even if you felt like you just bowled the quickest ball of all time.

 

[Days of Grace]

The bowler needs to be in the middle of a six-seven over spell to achieve maximum pace imo. Therefore, I don't read much into 'speed competitions'. Match conditions, when you know a bowler is in rhythm, is the best way to judge.

 

[Richard]

Interestingly, I often feel like I'm bowling far sharper (I hesitate to associate "quick" with my bowling) in the nets than in a game (and also sometimes the other way around), especially when I can get a proper run-up.

As Corey says, though, there's no reliable way for a bowler to know how fast he's bowling, as the balls that "feel" the best aren't always the quickest, at all.

 

[Jono]

Ah, but a cap doesn't make too much difference does it

In my view its a cricketing sin to be on the field (unless you're bowling of course) and hatless/helmetless.

This was an accepted occurence in the past, but nowadays everyone has some sort of headgear on when they bat, keep or field.

I abuse my own teammates at my cricket club when they field hatless. Its not on.

 

[JBH001]

Interestingly, I often feel like I'm bowling far sharper (I hesitate to associate "quick" with my bowling) in the nets than in a game (and also sometimes the other way around), especially when I can get a proper run-up.

As Corey says, though, there's no reliable way for a bowler to know how fast he's bowling, as the balls that "feel" the best aren't always the quickest, at all.

True that. Although there are times when you just know. I was bowling leg-spinners in the nets a little while ago (my style is a little like MacGills) and while running in felt that the next ball was going to be a ripper. And it was, body coiled, released well, ball fizzed, good speed, nice late dip, pitched 6 inches outside leg, and took the top of off. A beauty, even if I do say so myself.

 

[Pup Clarke]

In my view its a cricketing sin to be on the field (unless you're bowling of course) and hatless/helmetless.

This was an accepted occurence in the past, but nowadays everyone has some sort of headgear on when they bat, keep or field.

I abuse my own teammates at my cricket club when they field hatless. Its not on.

People can do what makes them feel most comfortable IMO and if that means going on the field without a cap then so be it.

 

[Son Of Coco]

In my view its a cricketing sin to be on the field (unless you're bowling of course) and hatless/helmetless.

This was an accepted occurence in the past, but nowadays everyone has some sort of headgear on when they bat, keep or field.

I abuse my own teammates at my cricket club when they field hatless. Its not on.

I think the terry-towelling hat is a must in the field actually. I bought mine at Lowes and will be sporting it this year...

 

[Jono]

People can do what makes them feel most comfortable IMO and if that means going on the field without a cap then so be it.

Why do you take things so seriously Pup?

 

[Top_Cat]

True that. Although there are times when you just know. I was bowling leg-spinners in the nets a little while ago (my style is a little like MacGills) and while running in felt that the next ball was going to be a ripper. And it was, body coiled, released well, ball fizzed, good speed, nice late dip, pitched 6 inches outside leg, and took the top of off. A beauty, even if I do say so myself.

Different for spin. Speed as a quick is more dependent on co-ordination than strength. Quicks who charge in and try to brutalise their bodies into bowling quick will be sorely (emphasis on sore) mistaken if they think they'll bowl quick. I myself suffer from this affliction when I'm not thinking about it and learnt the lesson last season when I bowled my first ball of a spell and just rolled the arm over. It ripped through the batsman and knocked over middle peg. The rest of the spell was rubbish as I charged in and tried to bowl at a million miles an hour and bowled not only crap but slow crap.

Co-ordination > strength for fast bowling.

 

[JBH001]

Yes. Agreed on that Top_Cat.

Its not for nothing that so many of the top pace bowlers have been lean and lithe men and not muscle men (although Lillee and Akhtar for example buck that stereotype a little). IMO a greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres and co-ordination and athleticism is what you need for speed bowling, not (as you say) brute strength.

Although, strength is not necessarily predicated on size either. IIRC Larwood was not an overly large or muscular man but his action demanded a lot from his body. Lindwall would later replicate that action and found it hard to copy it exactly due to the requirements it made on his body, which is perhaps one reason why he bowled slightly round arm (imo).

 

[Goughy]

Yes. Agreed on that Top_Cat.

Its not for nothing that so many of the top pace bowlers have been lean and lithe men and not muscle men (although Lillee and Akhtar for example buck that stereotype a little). IMO a greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres and co-ordination and athleticism is what you need for speed bowling, not (as you say) brute strength.

What you both say is true, many quicks fit the bill as described in the quote. The lithe fast bowler (Donald to me being the perfect example) are very successful. However, that is only one type of fast bowler

There are a group of fast bowlers that do get a lot of pace from strength.

They are a different type to the lithe quicks and cant be put in the same category and shouldnt be ignored.

Here is a small selection. Im bored so Ill put up pics and see if people can recognise them (some easy, others not)

It sounds wierd, but for the powerful quicks we look at buttocks

 

[Top_Cat]

I think we were more talking about the 'ideal' fast bowler as far as being able to bowl quick but also not injure themselves. Those guys are all injury-prone. They're all quick bowlers and don't fit the same mould as your Alan Donalds, yes, but they're not the 'ideal' if you count injury prevention as being part of your ideal action.

 

[Goughy]

I think we were more talking about the 'ideal' fast bowler as far as being able to bowl quick but also not injure themselves. Those guys are all injury-prone. They're all quick bowlers and don't fit the same mould as your Alan Donalds, yes, but they're not the 'ideal' if you count injury prevention as being part of your ideal action.

No they are not. Not really more so than other types

I may have sounded like I was joking in the above post, but the difference between the lithe quicks and the powerful quicks often comes from the backside.

There is an old saying, "If you want to find a quick, look at their buttocks"

 

[Jono]

Craig McMillan ftw then.