How good was Basil D'Oliveira?

[open365]

I just watched a documentary on the whole Basil D'Oliveira affair (Awesome viewing, anyone who hasn't seen it should look on BBC Iplayer for it) from the 1960s.

Now, given that he's such a well respected person for matters not entirely down to batsmanship, it's slightly inevitable any doumentary about him would probably exagerate how good a player he was, and according to this documentary he is rated as one of the top 2 South African batsman of all time along with Pollock. I know how amazing Pollock was said to be, but I'd never heard of D'Oliveira as being that calibre of player before.

So, how good of a player was he? And where would he be ranked among the all time greats?

 

[Goughy]

He certainly wouldnt be number 2. Barry Richards would be.

I think he was a solid international standard player. He missed a whole chunk of his early-mid career but, apart from aggregates, I dont think much would have been different.

Id say capable rather than genius describes him.

 

[wpdavid]

Broadly agree with Goughy's assessment. I think he's understating the element to which we didn't see the best of D'Oliveira - iirc he was 34 when he made his test debut, so there's a good chance that he already wasn't the player he had been by then.

But I don't think you could objectively place BD ahead of Barry Richards. There is plenty of FC evidence that BR was one of the outstanding batsmen of all time, whereas too much of BD's career was played in circumstances where it's incredibly hard to evaluate him. Therefore when trying to truly evaluate BD you're having to extrapolate backwards from what he was in his mid30's, which is hardly an exact science.

 

[BoyBrumby]

It's probably ironic that if a (to use that slightly uncomfortable expression) Cape Coloured showed D'Oliveira's ability now he'd almost certainly be selected for SA too soon rather than roundly ignored.

As wpd says tho, he debuted in tests at an age when most players have a promising career behind them & was past 40 when he finally played his last game at the highest level. In fact, if memory serves (and this was briefly touched on in the docu I think) Dolly knocked three years off his actual age (or at least didn't correct a bureaucratic error, I can't remember the exact circumstances) when he arrived in England, so appeared to be "only" 31 rather than 34 when he debuted for England.

 

[Dissector]

It's impossible to be sure how good he was but given his achievements despite his very late start it's not fanciful to think that he would have been an all-time great with the right opportunities. Not only did he debut in tests at 34, he started in first-class cricket only at the age of 32. Given those handicaps his career is certainly one of the most remarkable in cricket history.

 

[Dissector]

edit:double post

 

[Son Of Coco]

He was excellent in Fawlty Towers.

 

[fredfertang]

Dolly was certainly a fine batsman as his stats amply demonstrate and although it looked like village green trundling his bowling was pretty effective too.

As it is I am not sure he would even be my choice as second best bat in the England team he played for (Edrich, Boycott and Cowdrey to name three) but if he had had those lost 10-15 years well who knows how he might be remembered now - would be interested to know what the stats for other post war batting greats are if you filter out everything up to age 34

Cant believe he could ever have been as good as Barry Richards though - never have I seen anyone make batting look so easy - of course that resulted in his critics saying he didn't try as hard as he could/should have and that the reason for that was because he couldn't test his skills at test level - i dont know about that because for whatever reason he hasn't written an autobiography but he was a very special batsman in his day

 

[Richard]

As his CricInfo profile states: if only John Arlott had spotted him at 19 rather than 29.

Then we might be able to get a conclusive answer. As it is, we'll really never know. Highly unlikely he was as good as Barry Richards and Graeme Pollock (maybe even Jacques Kallis, though I can't shake the feeling there's a "might well have been" there) but not, I suppose, completely OOTQ.

What he did debuting at such an advanced age is remarkable enough anyway, and regardless of anything he stands as a symbol of escaping Apartheid to build a career elsewhere.

 

[steds]

As it is I am not sure he would even be my choice as second best bat in the England team he played for (Edrich, Boycott and Cowdrey to name three) but if he had had those lost 10-15 years well who knows how he might be remembered now - would be interested to know what the stats for other post war batting greats are if you filter out everything up to age 34

Cbf with anyone else, but here's the post-34th birthday comparison with the other 3 you mentioned:

		Mat  	Inns  	NO  	Runs  	HS  	Ave  	100  	50	
Boycott		45  	83  	9  	3535  	191  	47.77  	10  	16
Cowdrey		24  	39  	1  	1319  	148  	34.71  	4  	5
D'Oliveira	44  	70  	8  	2484  	158  	40.06  	5  	15  	
Edrich		27  	46  	3  	1688  	175  	39.25  	2  	10

Stands up fairly well.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

As his CricInfo profile states: if only John Arlott had spotted him at 19 rather than 29.

Didn't D'Oliveira seek out Arlott though?

 

[Richard]

Not entirely sure, it's a story I'm only familiar with the nuances of once D'Oliveira got to the UK.

Either way, it's a shame it didn't happen 10 years before it did.

 

[fredfertang]

Yes but given what I imagine was the size of Arlott's postbag spotting is probably the right word

I wonder where he got his address from?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes but given what I imagine was the size of Arlott's postbag spotting is probably the right word

I wonder where he got his address from?

I don't expect it took much for D'Oliviera to stand out though. The situation, talent apart, was pretty outstanding on its own. A man who backed himself as a quality cricketer desperately sought his assistance to shift his career from apartheid-plagued South Africa to England. It was more D'Oliviera backing himself than Arlott spotting him.

 

[steds]

I wonder where he got his address from?

Google imo.

 

[Richard]

Yeah... 40 years before its time.

 

[fredfertang]

Arlott knocked him back at first - it was only when others wrote to Arlott pointing out Dolly's stats that things started to move

Google imo.

Walked into that didn't I!

 

[archie mac]

We have a review of book about Dolly by Osborne, on the site, one of the best cricket books I have read

 

[Richard]

*Obourne.

 

[zaremba]

His figures look perfectly respectable but not outstanding.

I suspect the "2nd best batsman" tag runs well in a documentary about him but wouldn't stand up to analysis.

I would imagine that most would accept that Graeme Pollock, Barry Richards and Jacques Kallis are or were better batsmen.

There may be those who'd say Peter Kirsten, Jimmy Cook, Eddie Barlow, and of those who played for England Tony Grieg, Robin Smith and Allan Lamb, were better players also.

However I'm in a poor position to judge because I never saw D'Oliveira play. I'd be interested to hear the views of anyone who did.