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CW chooses the 2 best bowlers ever: 60 spinners + 100 pacemen in 2 separate contests
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
viriya
International Captain
I blame the meds I'm on right now.
smash84
The Tiger King
fixed
listento_me
U19 Captain
Huh? Are you just listing bowlers that have played for their countries or actual truly top tier greats? Because those lists are way too long. Australia doesn't have 14 great spinners by any stretch of the imagination. At this rate, lets include Afridi and Malik too. Oh and put Monty in for England, far better than Tuffers ever was, so if the latter can be on your list...
viriya
International Captain
Part of the fun of this is weeding out the weaker players each round.. otherwise we can just get everyone's 2 picks and be done with it.
doesitmatter
U19 Cricketer
Dilip Doshi should be there under Indian spinners section . World class.
viriya
International Captain
Had a bit of time to go through the list.. the most blatant misses are:
Andy Caddick
Graham McKenzie
Peter Siddle
Geoff Lawson
Iqbal Qasim
Steve Harmison
Monty Noble
Tim Southee
There are 30-40 that I don't think belong, but of them the most obvious ones to be replaced with the above are:
Mohammad Nissar
Amar Singh
Bob Appleyard
Bernard Bosanquet
Jack Iverson
Ted McDonald
George Ulyett
Jack Cowie
Some players I couldn't even find:
Vincent Van Der Bijl - do you mean Cyril Vincent?
Rag Nadkarni - do you mean Bapu Nadkarni?
John Saunders - do you mean Jack Saunders?
Garth Le Roux didn't play tests
Andy Caddick
Graham McKenzie
Peter Siddle
Geoff Lawson
Iqbal Qasim
Steve Harmison
Monty Noble
Tim Southee
There are 30-40 that I don't think belong, but of them the most obvious ones to be replaced with the above are:
Mohammad Nissar
Amar Singh
Bob Appleyard
Bernard Bosanquet
Jack Iverson
Ted McDonald
George Ulyett
Jack Cowie
Some players I couldn't even find:
Vincent Van Der Bijl - do you mean Cyril Vincent?
Rag Nadkarni - do you mean Bapu Nadkarni?
John Saunders - do you mean Jack Saunders?
Garth Le Roux didn't play tests
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viriya
International Captain
You have to put too much emphasis on FC records to consider them worthy of their places.. especially McDonald who wasn't anything great in the 11 tests he played. Cowie didn't even play 10 tests.
Either way there are a lot more players that can be replaced:
Ernie Jones
Sylvester Clarke
Mushtaq Mohammad
Chuck Fleetwood-Smith
JJ Ferris
Tich Freeman
Manny Martindale
Ken Farnes
Fanie De Villiers
Learie Constantine
Roy Gilchrist
Billy Bates
Mike Hendrick
Bill Bowes
Richard Illingworth
Joe Palmer
Vincent Van Der Bijl
Narenda Hirwani
Rag Nadkarni
Lasith Malinga
Arthur Mailey
John Embury
Ken Higgs
Jack Gregory
Paul Adams
Damien Fleming
John Saunders
Garth Le Roux
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viriya
International Captain
Caddick especially is hugely underrated imo. Dude averaged 26 in non-Ashes tests but because he faced the GOAT batting line-up for majority of the matches he played he ended up with a 30 average. He also has 234 wickets - in the top 50 there.
Definitely deserves to be in any top 100 list.
Definitely deserves to be in any top 100 list.
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Zinzan
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Neither did Barry Richards, and that doesn't stop us holding him in the highest order. Cowie's lack of Tests was obviously due to WWII. He debuted in 1937 & finished in 1949.
But it's what he achieved in those 9 tests against the best opposition at the time and comments like this quoted on his cricinfo profile..
."The passage in Wisden most frequently quoted in New Zealand is a sentence by editor Wilfred Brookes from the 1938 edition: 'Had he been an Australian, he might have been termed a wonder of the age.' This refers to Jack Cowie's efforts on the 1937 tour of England, when he took 114 wickets at 19.95. "
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Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
Where's kyear when you need him?
He specifically stated earlier that it wasn't just based on players who played internationally, which is why players like van der Bijl and Le Roux are in there.
morgieb
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It also didn't help that Caddick was not selected for ages for reasons other than his ability when he should've been first picked, and he was over 30 when England finally woke up to how good he was. Not sure if he's in the Top 60 seamers but he's probably Top 100 overall.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
by any stretch of the imagination? I feel I listed 12-13 great aussie spinners, possibly would give you Lyon but he has big fans on this forum. Basically I think you're exaggerating bigtime. I agree Afridi possibly deserves a spot
and viriya you are putting too much emphasis on stats and objective data here. I'm considering qualitative information as well and people wrote insanely better things about Cowie, Van der Bijl, McDonald and co then they did Caddick.
You bring up some stats about Caddick and the face that he had to face top quality batsman, some of those inter-war bowlers had a pretty rough time of it as well you know. so many gun batsman and batsman friendly pitches back then. I could also give you little snippets of stats about them thatl BLOW YO MIND
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morgieb
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Yeah, if I was to kick someone out for Caddick, would probably be Hoggard.Decent argument for Caddick btw, I think he's underrated as well, but it doesn't mean Cowie gets chucked out. Find someone else to have him replace.