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Australia v Pakistan (BRING IT ON!) at the Ring of Fire, Dubai-- 11/11 Thursday (N), Semi-final #2

Victor Ian

International Coach
In such things, the answer can be found with how the great man Allan Border handled these events. Hitting a double bounce is ok. It is what being a **** **** bowler deserves. I don't think he stooped to mankadding or running off a deflection.

Mankadding is probably ok. The problem when Ashwin does it is he looks like a complete wanker when he does it. It's all about the poise with which you do it.
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
Regarding running off a deflection, the correct action is to get out instead, like Symonds did. Aussies are your role models. Accept it.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
You either follow spirit of cricket or you don't. If mankading is against spirit of cricket, then hitting a double bounced ball is also against it. And if you believe otherwise, then both are otherwise. That is the point that Gambhir is making too, which I agree with.
i don't really know how to respond to us because it seems to exclude the possibility that there are gradations or questions of degree or anything; it's just completely black and white
 

Spark

Global Moderator
The rules and laws are, tbh.
i'll just refer everyone back to that post i made a few weeks back tbh. no sport can or should be forced to conform to such extreme levels of rules lawyering in terms of "how we want the sport to be played".

i see a big difference personally between mankading, which to be clear is entirely legitimate but nevertheless a highly abnormal mode of dismissal, to a **** ball getting hit for six.
 

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
i'll just refer everyone back to that post i made a few weeks back tbh. no sport can or should be forced to conform to such extreme levels of rules lawyering in terms of "how we want the sport to be played".

i see a big difference personally between mankading, which to be clear is entirely legitimate but nevertheless a highly abnormal mode of dismissal, to a **** ball getting hit for six.
How about the under arm ball by Trevor Chappell? That was a ****ty ball too, only difference being this got hit for six while that was not. And that gets accepted as against the spirit of cricket.

What is the count of pitches post which a ball exceeds the spirit?
 

Spark

Global Moderator
How about the under arm ball by Trevor Chappell? That was a ****ty ball too, only difference being this got hit for six while that was not. And that gets accepted as against the spirit of cricket.

What is the count of pitches post which a ball exceeds the spirit?
That's... also obviously very different? I feel like you're being a bit obtuse here.

The difference between a bowled ball that is so bad it bounces twice and underarm bowling is that underarm bowling is not bowling. That was a blatant loophole in the laws that was immediately fixed because no one had seriously considered the possibility that someone would basically not bowl (let's be real here, underarm bowling is not bowling) and the rules would "allow" it. Meanwhile the ball bouncing twice has been an accounted-for scenario for many years now. It's not even the first time this has happened; I distinctly remember Jonathan Trott doing something quite similar, and the Allan Border example has been discussed before. Hafeez tried quite legitimately to bowl the ball normally, the ball slipped out of his hand by mistake and ended up pitching way, way short of where he intended, so much so that it bounce twice. Warner, seeing a terrible ball that he could hit for six, tried to hit it for six. It's just not at all the same thing.

Where I could see it being dodgier is if Warner had to basically run off the pitch to hit the ball because then the fielders are potentially in danger from a batsman running around swinging a cricket bat. But that's not what happened. It would be like saying that when big floaty full tosses shouldn't be hit.

For me the "spirit of cricket" balance is simple: if there's something that, if we could outlaw then we probably should, but we don't because it would create other problems that are even bigger than the original problem being solved. "Ball pitched so short it bounced twice" is quite clearly not one of those scenarios.
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Cricketer Of The Year
Where I could see it being dodgier is if Warner had to basically run off the pitch to hit the ball because then the fielders are potentially in danger from a batsman running around swinging a cricket bat.
I have vague memories of Johnny Bairstow doing this in the County Championship some years back. Can't remember who was bowling but it went horribly wrong, dragged way short and wide of the pitch.

Bairstow went sprinting out and whacked the ball (which was practically rolling at that point) for 4.

I thought it was pretty funny.
 

Uppercut

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Seriously good chase from Aus. I was worried about Warner and he proved me right. He set the stage with Marsh and from there we pretty much needed a miracle in these conditions. I personally don't think that Hasan drop would've mattered much. They had enough firepower from there to get home anyway.

I think considering the conditions we're playing in, we needed a score of 190 like what SA posted. We could've gotten there if not for a) Babar throwing his wicket away and b) that ridiculous Cummins over.
Tbf at that stage you were 70/0 after almost ten overs, if 190 was what you wanted then that's nowhere near aggressive enough. They'd batted themselves into a corner where they needed to play shots like that.

I still kinda agree though because they were struggling to even get bat on Zampa during that over. Maybe they should have been trying to hit ~every Maxwell ball out of the park instead.
 

SillyCowCorner1

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Mankads are cool, smashing double bounces is cool, bowling no-balls to deny centuries is cool.
Ashraful once bowled a double bounce ball to a young Ab de Villiers and got him out for a duck; the first duck in AB’s international career.

Double bouncers are cool.
The Professor attempting to bowl it was not cool. He should have stuck with the syllabus. Going off-script to look cool amongst the weed smoking students in the back row was….dire from the Professor.
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
Tbf at that stage you were 70/0 after almost ten overs, if 190 was what you wanted then that's nowhere near aggressive enough. They'd batted themselves into a corner where they needed to play shots like that.
My problem was mostly that it seemed to me he was trying to clear the cow corner with the fielder under it. Almost as if he didn't realize the fielder was there. Warner barely had to move to catch it.
 

sunilz

International Regular
that wasn't it

everyone only mentioning dhoni in the 2011 wc final is what put him in his asylum inside his own head
If we had a Gambhir like player now , we wouldn't be such chokers.
In knockout matches, I will take Gambhir over Rohit, Kohli anyday
 
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