The bowler of the 90s and 00s

[viriya]

No he doesn't.

Kallis bowled 145kph outswing and had a mean bouncer.

He never won SA a series with the ball. He was never the main strike bowler.

 

[viriya]

It would make him a very, very good all-rounder indeed. But nowhere near the 'greatest ever'.

Greatest ever was a little but of hyperbole, but I would say he would have a solid chance of getting to the top 10 all-time, with a shot at greatest ever if he keeps improving at both disciplines (develop more variations for bowling, fix short ball issue for batting etc)

 

[hendrix]

He never won SA a series with the ball. He was never the main strike bowler.

Why would that matter? Darren Sammy has been the Windies' main strike bowler in various series. Pretty hard to be South Africa's main strike bowler in the modern era.

 

[hendrix]

Greatest ever was a little but of hyperbole, but I would say he would have a solid chance of getting to the top 10 all-time, with a shot at greatest ever if he keeps improving at both disciplines (develop more variations for bowling, fix short ball issue for batting etc)

I feel like you haven't been watching him bowl recently. He has plenty of variations. He just doesn't have a good, accurate stock ball that dips and turns.

 

[viriya]

OK, effective main strike bowler then. Point is kallis while he had a lot of potential never really ever made a huge impact with the ball. Ashwin on the hand has done that already at home early in his career. I'm not saying kallis was overrated, just that he was clearly a batting all-rounder.

 

[viriya]

I feel like you haven't been watching him bowl recently. He has plenty of variations. He just doesn't have a good, accurate stock ball that dips and turns.

He overbowls his carrom ball, and doesn't bowl the doosra as effectively as say ajmal.. The last time I saw him live was at the WT20.

 

[hendrix]

OK, effective main strike bowler then. Point is kallis while he had a lot of potential never really ever made a huge impact with the ball. Ashwin on the hand has done that already at home early in his career. I'm not saying kallis was overrated, just that he was clearly a batting all-rounder.

Yes, he was certainly a batting all rounder, but he took 5 fiver-fors, 7 4-fore at a good average, economy and strike rate while never being the strike bowler. He was a better bowler than Ashwin currently is, whether he's a batting all rounder or not.

And yeah I'm not denying that Ashwin has taken some wickets at home against touring NZ, Windies and Aus sides, but I don't think batsmen are likely to continue playing him as poorly as they did the first time around. I think he'll be milked fairly easily.

He overbowls his carrom ball, and doesn't bowl the doosra as effectively as say ajmal.. The last time I saw him live was at the WT20.

Ajmal spins his off break. You don't take test wickets often with surprise type deliveries unless your stock ball is good. We've seen the same thing with Mendis. Limited overs is different.

 

[viriya]

Kallis benefited by bowling short spells that protected his average. That's also why he never got a 10 wkt haul and why his wkts/match is so low. Anyway, it's very hard to compare a spin bowler with a fast bowler - whether ashwin is milkable is yet to be seen (at home especially).

 

[cnerd123]

How do short spells 'protect your average?'

 

[Migara]

You have to admit though Ashwin becoming the best all-rounder in world cricket (considering his only real competition is Shakib and maybe Philander) is a real possibility. You don't get guys who average 40+ with the bat but can also win you games with the ball (admittedly only at home atm) very often.

Moeen Ali says hi!

 

[Migara]

Ashwin has all elements to be a great all rounder. One of the very few towering tall spinners that world has seen of course with some skill (Silaiman Benn etc were plain **** although tall). He has a mean off break, but lacks bit of brains to set up batsman for a wicket. Against RHB, his carom ball will bring him only limited success as carom balls seldomly take bounce. It will be gold against LHB though. His batting certainly has potential. People rate Flintoff very higly as all rounder despite being ordinary for half of his career. If Ashwin can average 35 with bat and 27-28 with ball, he will be regarded as the greatest spin bowling all rounder ever.

 

[Coronis]

Ashwin has all elements to be a great all rounder. One of the very few towering tall spinners that world has seen of course with some skill (Silaiman Benn etc were plain **** although tall). He has a mean off break, but lacks bit of brains to set up batsman for a wicket. Against RHB, his carom ball will bring him only limited success as carom balls seldomly take bounce. It will be gold against LHB though. His batting certainly has potential. People rate Flintoff very higly as all rounder despite being ordinary for half of his career. If Ashwin can average 35 with bat and 27-28 with ball, he will be regarded as the greatest spin bowling all rounder ever.

Aubrey Faulkner all the way. I did think this was a thread about the best bowlers of the last 20 years, why are we talking about Ashwin?

 

[marc71178]

He never won SA a series with the ball. He was never the main strike bowler.

Because Ashwin's won so many series with the bat...

 

[viriya]

Because Ashwin's won so many series with the bat...

No one was comparing Ashwin the bowler with Kallis the batsman.

 

[viriya]

It's confirmed.. Ashwin is the best all-rounder around today:
ICC news : Kumar Sangakkara regains No. 1 ranking | Cricket News | Sri Lanka v Pakistan | ESPN Cricinfo

(I don't agree with the ICC ratings, but thought it was amusing)

 

[marc71178]

No one was comparing Ashwin the bowler with Kallis the batsman.

So you can criticise Kallis for something but I can't criticise Ashwin?

For me Kallis the bowler is easily the equal of Ashwin the bat and Kallis the bat is far far superior to Ashwin the bowler.

 

[viriya]

So you can criticise Kallis for something but I can't criticise Ashwin?

For me Kallis the bowler is easily the equal of Ashwin the bat and Kallis the bat is far far superior to Ashwin the bowler.

Note that I didn't say Ashwin was better than Kallis.

 

[Teja.]

Have thought about this again and will change my vote from McGrath to Warne. I feel McGrath was ever so slightly better within the framework of the dominant Aussie side but Warne would add more to 95% of bowling attacks in history who are not as elite.

Having a spinner who can bowl extended spells and strikes at 50 just adds an incredible versatility and flexibility to a standard cricketing side and that is particularly so when there are no three other established bowlers in the side. A spinner like Warne can carry the side over entire series' in really dire spots when the bowling is out of order due to the natural advantage of being able to bowl a ****load of high quality overs in a way that a great pacer cannot. I agree that we can't overlook that ATG pacers on the level of McGrath are more consistent, far better top order bowlers and are definitely superior against the very best batsmen like Lara, Tendulkar etc. but the incredible flexibility that an attacking spinner like Warne offers a captain wins it for me.

 

[marc71178]

Note that I didn't say Ashwin was better than Kallis.

The fact you even mentioned him in the same breath is an insult to Kallis, and I don't often praise Kallis.

 

[weldone]

So you can criticise Kallis for something but I can't criticise Ashwin?

For me Kallis the bowler is easily the equal of Ashwin the bat and Kallis the bat is far far superior to Ashwin the bowler.

In fact, achievement-wise Ashwin's batting has a lot to do to match Kallis' bowling. It's there potential-wise, but potential is only part of the equation.

On the other part, It's safe to say that Ashwin's bowling will never compare to Kallis' batting. (I'm happy to be proven wrong in future)