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Changes to England Team in Next Match Onwards

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I love Carbs but the idea of him against a bowler like Ajmal is makes me want to cry, I know we won't face a bowler of his class but would not want him to play in India, would go well in Australia though I think.

Anyway as I said before am confident Strauss will come through this period.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I think Strauss's captaincy is important not because he's a an absolutely brilliant captain, but because I really can't imagine anyone else in the side doing a remotely good job of it.
It's a very good question. Or two.

I suppose it depends on exactly how miserable his form is over the next 8 months. I know you can't really be this specific, but an average in the 30s against SA would probably keep him in the side, especially if England win. Below that, he's struggling, especially if they lose to SA.

It also depends on how the alternatives go - both the replacement openers from the county game, and likeliest replacement skipper in the England side.

I certainly wouldn't move Trott up to open though.

I think that Strauss's captaincy is important, but not as vital as some would have us believe.
Strauss the tactician may be nothing out of the ordinary but by all accounts his man-management is exceptional. I don't think the value of that should be underestimated.
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
Carberry is probably the closest of the openers in the county game but he's kind of old now and iirc struggled against spin on his test debut - not that is likely to be a big issue if we're building to face Australia.
Worst logic, 31 is not old and he's like a whippet in the field.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Even ignoring captaincy, does anyone really think Carberry is more likely to score runs than Strauss, though?
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Really? Based on what? There are no openers in the county game who scream "pick me" & the middle order cover mainly consists of youngsters, some of whom look shocking against spin.
Oh, it's far from brilliant but there's a number of players I'd back to do a serviceable job. Besides India is there a country anywhere with arguably brilliant reserve batting stocks?

Carberry is a bloody good opener, debuted in conditions that couldn't be less suited to his game and got binned after one match. The bloke came back from a blood clot on his lung to reel off an unbeaten triple last season, the bloke can bat. I'd call 3400 @ 58 in the last 3 years as pretty close to 'pick me' form.

As for who I think has potential to cut it in the middle order at some point? Taylor, obviously. I'd also be surprised if Bairstow and Stokes didn't have reasonable Test careers.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Think there is a lot of potentially good batsmen around, the likes of Taylor, Hales, Bairstow, Stokes, etc, but in terms of more experienced players, the type you'd expect to come to terms with Test cricket sooner than these young lads, then there are few actually beating the door down. Hildreth began to do so but his performance drifted off last season, Bopara is clearly a contentious suggestion to many on here, Samit Patel is inconsistent.

So in terms of virtual ready-made replacements we may seem a little thin on the ground, still hope Hildreth continues to improve his game.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Buttler, tbh. Kid's a cut above. FC record still needs a little burnishing, perhaps, but one only has to see him to know he has something else altogether.

Has a similar temperament to Morgan (tick), but a far superior technique (tick, gold star). The fact he was moved up to #4 in the last Loins game perhaps suggests he's being marked out for greater things.

As for openers, I honestly think Hales might be ahead of Carbs in the pecking order now. Is somewhat boom and bust, but when he gets in he scores big. Can bet your mortagage that if he'd batted 15 overs v Pakistan we wouldn't have been 22/0 or whatever it was.
 

amanuensis

U19 12th Man
As for openers, I honestly think Hales might be ahead of Carbs in the pecking order now. Is somewhat boom and bust, but when he gets in he scores big. Can bet your mortagage that if he'd batted 15 overs v Pakistan we wouldn't have been 22/0 or whatever it was.
He's dire against spin, so the situation would probably have been worse.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
Check the location.
I'm not in Ireland, and think KP and Bell should be dropped before Morgan also. The "productive series" for which the former are still receiving undue credit were for the most part against sub-standard bowling. The fact that Michael Clarke's batting average has jumped by four points over the course of four Tests against a stronger India attack than the one England faced last year, rather puts KP and Bell's summer of plunder in context.

Bell has proven for the umpteenth time that he can't cut it against quality bowling; KP that he has lost what he once had, probably for good. Having been given so many previous opportunities, why on earth shouldn't they be dropped? Given their experience and reputations, they should be aspiring to the level of performance that someone like Sangakkara - who a matter of weeks ago managed to score 516 runs in three Tests at an average of 86, including a century and a double century, against the very same attack that is making them look like novices - is achieving, not hiding behind a fledgling teammate. Averaging 9 (Bell) and 4.5 (Pietersen) should get experienced players dropped, and if they both continue to average less than 20 after the next match, as I predicted they would, England will be announcing that they are content to field a sub-standard middle order of experienced players who cannot be relied on to score runs against top class bowling.

I don't understand how anyone can argue that Morgan has looked far worse than the other two. To my eye, they have all looked equally inept. But for me the key difference is that Morgan is facing this sort of bowling in these conditions for the first time, and so it is rather to be expected that he would struggle. I have no doubt - given the reality that KP and Bell are bigger names, that Morgan is the one who will be sacrificed. But it doesn't make it right.

The great thing though is that dropping him would remove the last remaining firewall between them and the axing they deserve. If they again fail in the final Test, then I hope Strauss' reported recent threats will be borne out and they miss out on the Sri Lanka tour. Let's see what Hildreth, Taylor, Bairstow etc. are made of. Out with the old, in with the new.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
I'm not in Ireland, and think KP and Bell should be dropped before Morgan also. The "productive series" for which the former are still receiving undue credit were for the most part against sub-standard bowling. The fact that Michael Clarke's batting average has jumped by four points over the course of four Tests against a stronger India attack than the one England faced last year, rather puts KP and Bell's summer of plunder in context.
Also put Morgan's struggles against that attack in some sort of perspective, tbh.


The great thing though is that dropping Morgan would remove the last remaining firewall between them and the axing they deserve. If they again fail in the final Test, then I hope Strauss' reported recent threats will be borne out and they miss out on the Sri Lanka tour. Let's see what Hildreth, Taylor, Bairstow etc. are made of. Out with the old, in with the new.
After one bad series? The 1980's revival starts here, it would seem.
 

Jacknife

International Captain
Whether you think KP or Bell have done better or worse than Morgan is neither here nor there, the fact is, they have weight of runs behind them and proved even after a poor series they can come back and score runs.
Morgan was picked, even though he has next to no first class form or stats behind him, on his temperament and that he was touted as a very good player of spin because he played it well in one day cricket. So far in his career he's shown none of what everyone thought and it could be said that the experiment has failed.
The idea of dropping Bell & KP is as stupid as stupid can get, especially after 2 bad tests or one bad series and is never going to happen imo, if it was it would be like revisiting the 90's again and look where that got us.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
Whether you think KP or Bell have done better or worse than Morgan is neither here nor there, the fact is, they have weight of runs behind them and proved even after a poor series they can come back and score runs.
Morgan was picked, even though he has next to no first class form or stats behind him, on his temperament and that he was touted as a very good player of spin because he played it well in one day cricket. So far in his career he's shown none of what everyone thought and it could be said that the experiment has failed.
The idea of dropping Bell & KP is as stupid as stupid can get, especially after 2 bad tests or one bad series and is never going to happen imo, if it was it would be like revisiting the 90's again and look where that got us.
What does "weight of runs behind them" mean,exactly? Do you actually think for yourself or are you just content to regurgitate tired old cliches that are actually pretty meaningless when you break down the individual words?

Garfield Sobers has weight of runs; perhaps the West Indies selectors could bring him in for the Australia series? More pertinently, Laxman, Dravid and Tendulkar have "weight of runs behind them"; all have proved that "even after a poor series they can come back and score runs"; does that mean they ought to be able to keep out Pujara, Rohit Sharma and others who clearly would appear to be of Test class - averaging as they do in the 60s in FCC - indefinitely? When the not-so-Young Turks are themselves in their thirties and still awaiting their opportunity, will people like you still be going on about "weight of runs"? When, pray tell, does the "weight of runs" argument cease to be tenable?

I have stated on a number of occasions that Morgan is neither here nor there. I don't even rate him and never have. If he's to be replaced, so be it, But he should not be dropped as some sort of solution to a series in which players who are much better established than him are averaging 9 (Bell, no. 5) and 4.5 (Pietersen, no. 4)!

That would encourage the real culprits in their furtherance of the real English disease - pace the fellow who opened a thread on that topic the other day - of entirely unjustified complacency. For me, what is "as stupid as stupid can get" is having aspirations to being genuinely the best team in the world, like the 80s Windies and the late 90s Aussies, and keeping as a core member of your line up a player like Bell who has proven time and again that he is an utter liability whenever he is confronted by a decent balanced attack.

I have been a fan of Pietersen in the past, and fully accept that there was a time when he was genuinely one of the best players in the world. But this has not been the case for a number of years now, and I have to admit that he now falls into the same category as Bell. When you look at the pattern of the past few years you see that he continually fails against decent attacks and props up his average by scoring the odd daddy hundred or double against lame ones.

Amazingly, he is in some respects even more of a liability than Bell against spin; he is a walking wicket for any half decent international spinner on a receptive pitch, and even on unhelpful tracks he generally looks highly fallible against all types of slow bowling.

Fortunately the decision makers are less complacent than you, and it is a much more live question than you think the question whether both Bell and Pietersen will be in the starting line up for the coming SC challenges. In all likelihood they're fighting for the one place. Had England had foresight to begin blooding the next generation earlier, they might BOTH have been facing the axe after the next match - should they both fail again, as I fully expect them to. It seems that they might both fail to make even the modest series average of 15-20 I had them pencilled in for. World class, absolutely world class!

I ask you: Could Hildreth, Taylor and co have done any worse?
 
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