ESPNcricinfo World XI

[Lostman]

how the **** did they manage to leave out hadlee from the second XI?

Wasim Akram in the All-time TEST XI?? What are they smoking?

Agree.
I don't rate Akram as high as many here and he would be no where near my world XI.
I saw 80% of Akram's career, and from the fast bowlers in his own generation there a few bowlers I thought were better than him.

Ambrose, Waqar, Donald, and McGrath.
ffs McGrath did not even make list #2.

 

[aussie]

I'm a much bigger fan of Ambrose than McGrath but I think he's waay overrated on here. Honestly don't see what puts him ahead of McGrath.

Ambrose had all of McGrath's metronomical accuracy. But was far more lethal given @ Ambrose peak he was a 90 mph plus between (ENG 1988 - AUS 96/97). While McGrath was just mediumpace/medium fast 85-89 between during his best peak (SA 96/97 - Ashes 02/03).

 

[aussie]

Aussie will probably self-combust.

Or find a way for it not to count.

No. If he does i will finally rate him. Although i highly doubt that will occur, especially if SA have a fully fit pace attack of Steyn/Morkel/De Wet/McLaren/Parnell/Kallis/Alexander available.

 

[smash84]

Agree.
I don't rate Akram as high as many here and he would be no where near my world XI.
I saw 80% of Akram's career, and from the fast bowlers in his own generation there a few bowlers I thought were better than him.

Ambrose, Waqar, Donald, and McGrath.
ffs McGrath did not even make list #2.

McGrath and Hadlee both didn't make even the 2nd XI?????? That is quite ridiculous.

 

[JBH001]

I agree with vcs that Ambrose is a bit overrated in these parts.

What? Surely you jest? Never mind, seen the rest of the thread.

IMO, Ambrose is the second greatest WI pacer after Marshall.

 

[Sanz]

I agree that he'd be a better choice over Wasim. In fact, I'm still shocked he wasn't picked over him. In the case of Sobers, if you don't consider him to be the greatest AR (as I do), then you can pick him in the side for his batting alone. He was that good.

But with Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lille, Don't you think Wasim is a better option ?

 

[Fusion]

But with Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lille, Don't you think Wasim is a better option ?

Perhaps, if you value the variety of a left-hander. I just think Imran is a greater bowler than Wasim and a far greater batsman. If you bring in intangibles like leadership and fitness levels, he brings far more to the team than Wasim IMO.

 

[Maximus0723]

If u wanted to put Wasim in so badly, you could have bolstered the batting by adding Imran for Lilllee and keeping the bowling as deadly as b4.

 

[smash84]

If u wanted to put Wasim in so badly, you could have bolstered the batting by adding Imran for Lilllee and keeping the bowling as deadly as b4.

Interesting observation.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

I will dare to blaspheme and say that Wasim Akram doesn't. His exploits in ODIs where he was a great great bowler are wrongly extended to assessment of his value as a test bowler. Even in that talk with Ian Chappell on this chosen XI, he mentions 92 world cup final when talking about Wasim

To start with check this and be surprised:

Reliance Mobile ICC Player Rankings

Those are career best ratings, an indication of how good one has been at his peak. Now consider Imran who had the 3rd greatest peak and could bat too and was a great leader. This is why some of us are totally disappointed on Wasim's selection over Imran.

Those ratings have Swann and Ntini over Akram and Holding..!!!

I feel Akram's extraordinary ODI record sometimes makes people forget how great a test bowler he was.How many fast bowlers have taken 414 wickets@23?(that too after playing so much on dead pitches, with mediocre fielders)

You could def. argue Imran was better,but it is subjective and very debatable.Wasim was every bit as good as the Ambroses,McGraths and Marshalls.So picking him for being a left armer is fair enough,imo.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

If u wanted to put Wasim in so badly, you could have bolstered the batting by adding Imran for Lilllee and keeping the bowling as deadly as b4.

Agreed.

 

[Lostman]

How many fast bowlers have taken 414 wickets@23?

Wasim was every bit as good as the Ambroses,McGraths and Marshalls.So picking him for being a left armer is fair enough,imo.

Picking him based on left handedness is lame for World XI. I don't care how the wickets/runs come as long as they come.

Just based on stats alone;
Mcgrath, Hadlee and Pollock have more wickets at a better average. Ambrose has slightly fewer wickets but at a better average and comparable strike rate. Donald has 80 odd wickets less at lower average and a far superior SR. And having watched McGrath, Ambrose, Donald and Akram during their careers, I would rate Akram 4th.

McGrath is possibly the most complete bowler in the last 25 years, and I cant believe he did not make the 1st and 2nd XI. Only Marshall's place over McGrath is justified among the chosen fast bowlers in the two teams.

 

[Prince EWS]

Picking him based on left handedness is lame for World XI. I don't care how the wickets/runs come as long as they come.

Just based on stats alone;
Mcgrath, Hadlee and Pollock have more wickets at a better average. Ambrose has slightly fewer wickets but at a better average and comparable strike rate. Donald has 80 odd wickets less at lower average and a far superior SR. And having watched McGrath, Ambrose, Donald and Akram during their careers, I would rate Akram 4th.

McGrath is possibly the most complete bowler in the last 25 years, and I cant believe he did not make the 1st and 2nd XI. Only Marshall's place over McGrath is justified among the chosen fast bowlers in the two teams.

Are you counting Barnes as a fast bowler when you say that?

 

[Lostman]

Are you counting Barnes as a fast bowler when you say that?

Barnes is a category by himself so no.

 

[Prince EWS]

Barnes is a category by himself so no.

I completely agree with your whole post then.

 

[ankitj]

Those ratings have Swann and Ntini over Akram and Holding..!!!

I feel Akram's extraordinary ODI record sometimes makes people forget how great a test bowler he was.How many fast bowlers have taken 414 wickets@23?(that too after playing so much on dead pitches, with mediocre fielders)

You could def. argue Imran was better,but it is subjective and very debatable.Wasim was every bit as good as the Ambroses,McGraths and Marshalls.So picking him for being a left armer is fair enough,imo.

Wasim also took a bagful of tail enders. So that average of 23.6 odd ends up looking a lot more ordinary after you take that into account.

And Wasim's average in subcontinent is better than that outside, so the dead pitch argument doesn't hold.

 

[Jono]

Picking him based on left handedness is lame for World XI. I don't care how the wickets/runs come as long as they come.

Just based on stats alone;
Mcgrath, Hadlee and Pollock have more wickets at a better average. Ambrose has slightly fewer wickets but at a better average and comparable strike rate. Donald has 80 odd wickets less at lower average and a far superior SR. And having watched McGrath, Ambrose, Donald and Akram during their careers, I would rate Akram 4th.

McGrath is possibly the most complete bowler in the last 25 years, and I cant believe he did not make the 1st and 2nd XI. Only Marshall's place over McGrath is justified among the chosen fast bowlers in the two teams.

Totally agree.

 

[Slifer]

Thought he would have gotten slighted but Im so happy and choked up to see the great MM in the final XI. Still feel that Imran is definitely underated by the so called experts but hey its there team. On paper the 2nd XI's bowling looks better but the first Xi's batting is infinitely better at every position serously!!!

PS LOL at the omission of Mcgrath and Hadlee from either team, that is just unforgievable. Oh and Ambrose is not overrated WTH??

 

[ankitj]

Also those ratings I pointed to are of course not everything. Ntini with an overall much lower bowling average cannot be placed above Akram. But a 70-90 point difference in peaks of Akram and other all time great fast bowlers does tell you something. That difference is quite statistically significant.

And I am half way through with the comprehensive "value of wicket" analysis. It will be good to see how bowlers stack up once I publish them. As of now Wasim has not done spectacularly in that analysis. Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath have emerged as the best 3.

 

[Lostman]

I completely agree with your whole post then.

Totally agree.

aww making me feel warm and fuzzy inside