Tendulkar as a World Cup player (posts moved here)

[bagapath]

A question to the Indian fans: what will be your thoughts if India go into the deep stages of the next WC and you still don't win a WC with Sachin?

will be a bit disappointing for sure. but steve waugh didnt win a test series in india, something he dearly wanted. bradman scored a duck in his last innings and finished agonozingly close to a 100 avg. warne's highest score remained 99. these small disappointments add a little more poignancy to their legend; like how love stories with a tinge of sadness in the end work better than "happily ever after" tales. sachin scoring a 40 in a WC triumph will matter less to his legacy than a fighting innings in a losing cause. as for me, i would be happy as long as they dont embarass themselves as a team like they did in 07

 

[Sir Alex]

Really? Has that been used before or after, or was it just for the 2003 tournament?

Personally don't agree with such a system. Not that I believe that Sachin didn't deserve it.

Not sure about that.

 

[Sanz]

I think your ignorance of Steve Waugh is showing. In 1987 he was a true all-rounder and took 2 for 37 from 9 overs in the final against England including the important wicket of Allan Lamb and Defreitas who had scored 17 from 10 and was looking like he might pull off a win. After Simon O'Donnell he was the most economical bowler and along with AB took the most wickets at 2. He also scored 5* from 4 balls.

This perfectly fits the criteria of shifting the goal post. So when you don't meet the criteria as a batsman bring out his stat as a bowler as if that will really prove how great Steve Waugh was as a batsman and I am sure that was a clutch performance with the bat.

He didnt bat in the 1999 world cup final because Australia won so easily.

The only time he failed in a world cup final was in 1996.

So he failed in the only innings he got a chance to bat, didn't he ?So according to the logic used by certain members, that is the main thing that counts. So don't get all fired up

Its posts like yours that really make it not worth discussing cricket on forums like these. Even by cricketweb's (low) standards your post was nothing but manipulative lies.

As if you are paragon of quality when you yourself are so blindsided by support of your countryman Social that you failed to see that this garbage was started by him simply to rile up Indian Members.

Steve Waugh won 2 world cups including one as captain.

Let me know his batting record in Finals.

 

[Ikki]

will be a bit disappointing for sure. but steve waugh didnt win a test series in india, something he dearly wanted. bradman scored a duck in his last innings and finished agonozingly close to a 100 avg. warne's highest score remained 99. these small disappointments add a little more poignancy to their legend; like how love stories with a tinge of sadness in the end work better than "happily ever after" tales. sachin scoring a 40 in a WC triumph will matter less to his legacy than a fighting innings in a losing cause. as for me, i would be happy as long as they dont embarass themselves as a team like they did in 07

I get what you're saying; no one can have everything they want. But I think winning a series in India or not averaging 100 or Warne getting a century are a bit different. None of those achievements would have been the pinnacle of their careers. Waugh wanted to win in India because he hadn't; not because it was the only thing keeping his side from #1. Bradman averaged 99.94, I think he can live with himself ; and Warne was never going to be considered much of a batsman anyway.

For me, and I think a lot of Aussies, the pinnacle of ODIs is the WC. Sachin has been good enough and so has his team to have won the thing. Personally, if he does win it, it would change my view of him quite a bit. As harsh as Social seems to be, to me he has a point: it's all well and good scoring runs when it's easier; but doing it when it matters - i.e. when it will win you something/make you the best - is something else.

It's why I look forward to when Australia face India again in Tests, as it will likely decide the #1 team in Tests if things keep going as they are. To see how he handles that pressure for me will be something special.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's why I look forward to when Australia face India again in Tests, as it will likely decide the #1 team in Tests if things keep doing as they are. To see how he handles that pressure for me will be something special.

Surely he's nothing to prove against OZ in Tests anywhere?

 

[Ikki]

Surely he's nothing to prove against OZ in Tests anywhere?

Why? Has he ever lead his side to be/stay #1 side against Australia? I think the most difficult thing is the battle for #1, when both teams are going hammer and tongs to win. Not that I think Australia let up when we played India; but it's a different atmosphere, a different challenge. Akin to when we play England, as opposed to playing NZ for example. If there is anything akin to a WC final in Tests, it's a test series to decide the #1 team.

 

[Migara]

I think Jayasurya won man of series in 96 world cup.

Sachin winning man of series in 03 had nothing to do with subjective evaluation. It was based on a predetermined ranking system which assigned points based on runs scored, Wickets taken, catches etc. The whingeing is akin to the same when india got to test number one rankings. (Not at you mate)

But Tendulkar and Waugh outscored Jayasuriya. He was selected as such because of his impact by the bat, good performance with the ball and sheer brilliance on the field.

 

[Top_Cat]

Why? Has he ever lead his side to be/stay #1 side against Australia? I think the most difficult thing is the battle for #1, when both teams are going hammer and tongs to win. Not that I think Australia let up when we played India; but it's a different atmosphere, a different challenge. Akin to when we play England, as opposed to playing NZ for example. If there is anything akin to a WC final in Tests, it's a test series to decide the #1 team.

Last two series' count using that criteria in my view.

 

[Sir Alex]

A question to the Indian fans: what will be your thoughts if India go into the deep stages of the next WC and you still don't win a WC with Sachin?

I wouldn't really care. I'd rather see Sachin win a Test series in Australia or S.A. before he retires.

will be a bit disappointing for sure. but steve waugh didnt win a test series in india, something he dearly wanted. bradman scored a duck in his last innings and finished agonozingly close to a 100 avg. warne's highest score remained 99. these small disappointments add a little more poignancy to their legend; like how love stories with a tinge of sadness in the end work better than "happily ever after" tales. sachin scoring a 40 in a WC triumph will matter less to his legacy than a fighting innings in a losing cause. as for me, i would be happy as long as they dont embarass themselves as a team like they did in 07

These.

I'd take a 3-2 win over a champion side like australia or south africa at their home in a bilateral series than the world cup personally because I don't like knockouts. Anybody can beat anyone on their day.

Of course, i'd take a test series win in australia or south afric any day over all this.

 

[Ikki]

Last two series' count using that criteria in my view.

IMO it doesn't since in the last two series we were crap and #1 in name only. It's why I make the distinction of how we are doing at the moment. Australia look to be on the rise again. Will be more clear after The Ashes and how India do in S.Africa.

 

[bagapath]

Why? Has he ever lead his side to be/stay #1 side against Australia?

he played his part in the 98 and in 01 series triumphs. their 16 consecutive wins ended against india. even in the 2-0 drubbing in india last year, he played a significant hand. sachin's record against australia is as good as it gets. of course, india and australia are not going to compete for the no.1 positon before he retires because india is already no.1 and australia is no.3.

as for the pinnacle of his ODI career, the 98 sharjah series, the 117not out and 90 odd runs in the down under 07 triangular series, the '03 WC and, yes, the 200 not out against SA would cover everything.

 

[Ikki]

These.

I'd take a 3-2 win over a champion side like australia or south africa at their home in a bilateral series than the world cup personally because I don't like knockouts. Anybody can beat anyone on their day.

Of course, i'd take a test series win in australia or south afric any day over all this.

Which is why Australia have won it 3 times in a row? There are only 2 knock-out stages in the WC, the semis and the final. That really shouldn't be an issue.

I also don't think Australians really care about losing ODI series. They use them plenty to test new players. You want to beat Australia at her best, you do it at the WC.

he played his part in the 98 and in 01 series triumphs. even in the 2-0 drubbing in india last year, he played a significant hand. sachin's record against australia is as good as it gets. of course, india and australia are not going to compete for the no.1 positon before he retires because india is already no.1 and australia is no.3.

as for the pinnacle of his ODI career, the 98 sharjah series, the 117not out and 90 odd runs in the down under 07 triangular series, the '03 WC and, yes, the 200 not out against SA would cover everything.

I'm just giving my opinion. I don't think he has much of an excuse for not winning a WC. He clearly had a side that could have done it on numerous occasions. No one I know is going to remember 07 triangular series and I am sure Sachin himself would swap his MOTS award for a World cup winners medal.

 

[Sir Alex]

Why? Has he ever lead his side to be/stay #1 side against Australia? I think the most difficult thing is the battle for #1, when both teams are going hammer and tongs to win. Not that I think Australia let up when we played India; but it's a different atmosphere, a different challenge. Akin to when we play England, as opposed to playing NZ for example. If there is anything akin to a WC final in Tests, it's a test series to decide the #1 team.

Don't see how a bout between world no.1 and no.3 (or is it 4) can be a championship bout.

For your info, Last time we defended our world no. 1 title succesfully against south africa, the no.2, Sachin had hit back to back centuries.

 

[Sir Alex]

But Tendulkar and Waugh outscored Jayasuriya. He was selected as such because of his impact by the bat, good performance with the ball and sheer brilliance on the field.

Of course, if anyone deserved it it was only Jayasurya in that tournament. I don't recollect saying anything suggesting he didn't.

 

[Sanz]

Tendulkar's supposed greatness didn't save them against the POWERHOUSE that is BANGLADESH in 2007 when he scored 7 runs off 26 balls did it?

Look who is talking, the combined Greatness of Gilchrist and Ponting could not save them against the same powerhouse of Bangladesh when they both combined to score a massive total of 1, 8 less than the greatest batsman since Sir Don Bradman AKA Md. Rafiq and the might Mcgrath could not buy a single wicket in 10 overs.

.

But hey, he scored 57* from only 29 deliveries against Bermuda.

That's the circular logic though, If he didn't score against BD and India lost we see a post full of sarcasm and if he did score same response.

India have not made either a Champions Trophy final or World Cup final since 2003.

Yeah India has 40% of its population below poverty line because of Tendulkar, half of its populace is illiterate because of him, India is so pathetic in Olympics, tendulkar failed there also. Look at Indian HOckey..in shambles..again because of Tendulkar. Bloody hell this guy I tell you is pretty useless. All he has done is make 30000+ International runs.

Only time India have won something big while Tendulkar was in the team was the 2002 Champions Trophy when they shared the title with Sri Lanka after the final was washed out.

In the 2000 CT final Tendulkar scored 69 off 83 deliveries against New Zealand when they lost. Not his fault that after the start he and Ganguly got the middle order collapsed but still, if he went on to score a century they probably would have won. He didnt fail but he didnt deliver the knock out punch that he was in position for.

He did score 91 and 117* against Australia in the two finals of the final tri-angular series in 2007/08. How much emphasis you want to put on that is up to the individual.

Yeah since he score 91 and 117* those finals can not be important, we should just cherry pick only those finals where SRT did not play well, we should also ignore an entire decade before 2000 where SRT helped India win many finals, we will also continue to count the failure of Team India as failure of Tendulkar despite him playing well.

 

[Ikki]

Don't see how a bout between world no.1 and no.3 (or is it 4) can be a championship bout.

I am not totally sure about the points system; but AFAIK the points between 1, 2 and 3 are little. If Australia were to win are you saying we wouldn't be #1?

For your info, Last time we defended our world no. 1 title succesfully against south africa, the no.2, Sachin had hit back to back centuries.

We'll have to see how you guys do in S.Africa but I don't put a whole lot of stock in them TBF. IMO the Australia of now is superior. At our weakest in the past decade we won an away series against them as they beat us here. They were probably stronger then too.

 

[Sanz]

For me, and I think a lot of Aussies, the pinnacle of ODIs is the WC. Sachin has been good enough and so has his team to have won the thing. Personally, if he does win it, it would change my view of him quite a bit. As harsh as Social seems to be, to me he has a point: it's all well and good scoring runs when it's easier; but doing it when it matters - i.e. when it will win you something/make you the best - is something else.

Social's point in this thread is garbage. Let me know Steve Waugh's contribution with the Bat when Australia won the WC. He never really did when it mattered.

Infact of the 40 finals he played in his career he averated <30. SRT has better batting average and Surprise Surprise better bowling average than SRW in ODI finals played.

It's why I look forward to when Australia face India again in Tests, as it will likely decide the #1 team in Tests if things keep going as they are. To see how he handles that pressure for me will be something special.

Yes let's look forward for next one and ignore 21 years of entire Tendulkar's career. Only the next series can decide how good SRT is. And If he ended up doing well, well that wont count because Mcgrath didn't play in the game.

 

[Sanz]

Don't see how a bout between world no.1 and no.3 (or is it 4) can be a championship bout.

For your info, Last time we defended our world no. 1 title succesfully against south africa, the no.2, Sachin had hit back to back centuries.

Doesn't count, it was at home turf, against weak SA bowling. Mcgrath, Donald, Akram all have to be playing in a test match together to make any of his performance count, which has no chance because Akram's Citizenship to Australia application is rejected and Mcgrath says he can't wait for Akram to become a citizen. Only chance is to grant all three the citizenship of Pakistan and play the test match in England.

 

[bagapath]

but ikki has a very good point. sachin's record as a world cup player will be complete with a title. his standing in tests ODIs is secure already.

here is a team of ODI greats who dont have world cup winner's medal in their kitties.

tendulkar
saeed anwar
lara
g.chappell
kallis
flintoff
boucher (wk)
marshall
saqlain
ambrose
waqar

to complete the 14: donald, pollock and sehwag

 

[Ikki]

I am not talking about Steve Waugh. And I am not ignoring Sachin's career. It's the fact that now India are #1 there is a whole different pressure to face which is something Sachin has never had to deal with. At the risk of starting a fight; the difference between Ponting and Sachin is that if Sachin scored runs; regardless of how the team did, he is ok. If Ponting scores runs and loses a match; people want his head. India weren't expected to win match in and out like Australia have.