Trouble in the English camp : Pietersen Vs Moores!?

[zaremba]

Yep, he's pretty highly rated as a young cricketer. He's only played one (IIRC?) First Class game and I haven't seen him at all yet but he's certainly getting a bit of a reputation as someone to watch.

It'd be humerous (albeit ridiculously unlikely) if he had a meteoric rise to the Australian team and his brother was recalled to the England team just before an Ashes series. I don't think brothers on opposite sides has ever happened in a Test, although I could be wrong.

In a Test in 1891/92 Alec and George Hearne played for England against a South Africa team which included their brother Frank.

 

[masterblaster]

Can't be bothered reading through the entire thread, but I remember when Michael Vaughan stood down I immediately wanted Andrew Strauss to be captain. He has all the qualities of a good leader and I'm sure he'll do a wonderful job. I always thought KP as captain was a bad idea and with his sort of ego it was proved right.

The last two test captains in Nasser Hussain and Michael Vaughan have been fine, inspirational leaders. These are guys you would want to play for. I felt sorry for the English cricketers who have just had to endure KP as captain. I hope Andrew Strauss continues on with the good work that Nasser Hussain and Michael Vaughan did and I'm sure the English cricketers would rather have Strauss as a leader than KP.

 

[Richard]

Doesn't this completely contradict the fact that you consider yourself Welsh?

No, we've done this one before. I'm British because I've lived in Britain all my life. My nationality is British. My regionality (if that's a word) is Welsh because I feel the strongest pull to Wales out of any other regions of the UK. However, I've also got very strong ties in my own mind to both Yorkshire and Northumberland. I feel the least allegiance to Devon, which I've now lived in for over half my life.

However, I'm British to the soles of my shoes.

 

[Richard]

Yep, he's pretty highly rated as a young cricketer. He's only played one (IIRC?) First Class game and I haven't seen him at all yet but he's certainly getting a bit of a reputation as someone to watch.

It'd be humerous (albeit ridiculously unlikely) if he had a meteoric rise to the Australian team and his brother was recalled to the England team just before an Ashes series. I don't think brothers on opposite sides has ever happened in a Test, although I could be wrong.

In a Test in 1891/92 Alec and George Hearne played for England against a South Africa team which included their brother Frank.

Was thinking the Hearnes would be the only possibility.

 

[Richard]

All extraordinarily unhealthy.

An absolutely fundamental part of the role of the captains and ex-captains concerned - MPV, Collingwood and KP - was to seek to bring about team unity rather than divisions and cliques. Their failure to do so, and indeed their readiness to do precisely the opposite, is not to their credit.

It's not a new thing of course. MPV's autobiography gives an interesting picture of the England side the team included an old boy brigade of senior players which had the effect of making the team an unwelcoming place for newcomers. Hussain (and ex-captains Stewart and Atherton who IIRC were still around at the time and who should have done more to prevent this happening) take the blame for that.

I don't think loyalty to the coach is in itself unhealthy. If there genuinely is exclusionism at play in any team at any time, of course, that is extraordinarily so, but that's a slightly different question to the one of loyalty to the team-leader.

 

[Furball]

All extraordinarily unhealthy.

An absolutely fundamental part of the role of the captains and ex-captains concerned - MPV, Collingwood and KP - was to seek to bring about team unity rather than divisions and cliques. Their failure to do so, and indeed their readiness to do precisely the opposite, is not to their credit.

It's not a new thing of course. MPV's autobiography gives an interesting picture of the England side the team included an old boy brigade of senior players which had the effect of making the team an unwelcoming place for newcomers. Hussain (and ex-captains Stewart and Atherton who IIRC were still around at the time and who should have done more to prevent this happening) take the blame for that.

Vaughan was equally responsible for creating something similar. His comments about Pattinson couldn't have made him feel welcome.

 

[zaremba]

Vaughan was equally responsible for creating something similar. His comments about Pattinson couldn't have made him feel welcome.

Yes - a very good point, I had forgotten about that. It was well within Vaughan's power to make things very much easier for Pattinson and he did precisely the opposite.

 

[Uppercut]

What's with the 'we, closet England fan?

"We" as in impartial observers...

Haha nah, the FTP programme means i'll probably be supporting them for quite a while now. Although i always say that but every time a series comes round against someone good i think they're going to lose (usually correctly) and hence bet against them and end up supporting the other team.

Also, some over-the-top clown keeps offering me silly pro-England avatar bets that i accept and have to support the other team as a result

 

[Bob Bamber]

Can't be bothered reading through the entire thread, but I remember when Michael Vaughan stood down I immediately wanted Andrew Strauss to be captain. He has all the qualities of a good leader and I'm sure he'll do a wonderful job. I always thought KP as captain was a bad idea and with his sort of ego it was proved right.

The last two test captains in Nasser Hussain and Michael Vaughan have been fine, inspirational leaders. These are guys you would want to play for. I felt sorry for the English cricketers who have just had to endure KP as captain. I hope Andrew Strauss continues on with the good work that Nasser Hussain and Michael Vaughan did and I'm sure the English cricketers would rather have Strauss as a leader than KP.

I think the main thing that was going against Strauss, was that the selectors/coach wanted one captain for all forms of the game again. And (as the situation still is) Strauss wasn't in the one day line-up. It was one of the reasons that Pietersen was the front runner was that there wasn't really anyone else who a) fitted the bill as captain and b) played in both (all three if we're counting Twenty20).

Just for the record - is Strauss full England captain, or just test captain?

 

[Uppercut]

I have a feeling this is going to have a pretty positive effect on England on the pitch tbh. They've got a superior captain in charge, a new coach with new ideas, a point to prove and a particularly weak opposition to unleash a new honeymoon period on.

 

[pup11]

I think the main thing that was going against Strauss, was that the selectors/coach wanted one captain for all forms of the game again. And (as the situation still is) Strauss wasn't in the one day line-up. It was one of the reasons that Pietersen was the front runner was that there wasn't really anyone else who a) fitted the bill as captain and b) played in both (all three if we're counting Twenty20).

Just for the record - is Strauss full England captain, or just test captain?

Yeah, i am also interested to know this, does this mean Strauss would now also play in the ODI and T20 format of the game and lead the side in all three formats of the game, or would England choose someone else to captain the side in the limited overs format.

 

[superkingdave]

Its not certain yet they've not said anything about it, if strauss were to become ODI captain it would mean including an extra in the ODI squad or leaving someone out.

I do hope we go down the path of having no coach apart from the specialists

 

[Uppercut]

Don't really understand how playing ODIs damages Strauss's test game when he plays LO cricket regularly for Middlesex with no such difficulty.

 

[GIMH]

Didn't know Middx had ODI status

 

[Uppercut]

 

[Richard]

Don't really understand how playing ODIs damages Strauss's test game when he plays LO cricket regularly for Middlesex with no such difficulty.

Last time Strauss played any regular OD cricket for Middx was 2003. Funnily enough, 2003 was also the only really good FC season he's ever had for them - before then he was merely adaquete in FC and poor in OD (about which I doubt he was expressly bothered TBH - so many county batsmen seem to be of that ilk, simply not caring greatly about their OD batting, else there'd be a few more who got better at it). Of course, his excellent 2003 got him on the England A tour that winter, the following summer a Test place opened-up, and the rest is history.

 

[GIMH]

According to the BBC, there will be a meeting soon to decide the ODI/T20 captain...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7817231.stm

 

[Langeveldt]

A big "hate to say I told you so" from most South Africans to the English supporters.. Walked into town today to see "CRISIS IN ENGLISH CRICKET" newspaper boards on the street lights, which took precedence over Smith's homecoming.. Seems like everyone is loving it down here..

I wonder if KP would be IPL bound if he didn't have the three lions tatoo'd to his bicep? I've always been loath to get a Springbok on my chest in case something bad happens

 

[pskov]

I expect Pietersen gave a thought to skipping the Windies tour and playing the full 6-week IPL schedule, but a) He'd still need the ECB to sign off on it, which they obviously wouldn't and b) He knows that ultimately he is in a position to earn the big bucks in the IPL because of his success with England over the last 4 years. I don't think he'd be anywhere near as desirable to a franchise owner if he was in a Boycott-esque exile from international cricket.

 

[Evermind]

"Pietersen was forced to relinquish his post when an ECB report conducted by the director of cricket, Hugh Morris, made it clear that several senior members of the England dressing-room - among them Andrew Flintoff and the new captain, Andrew Strauss - did not support his actions.

Aside from the unease about his attack on the coach, the players are believed to have found Pietersen tactically naïve in the field, particularly in the first Test at Chennai where India chased 387 for victory. Also, there are suggestions that he made too much personal capital out of England's return to India following the Mumbai attacks, probably with a view to earning a lucrative contract in the IPL. "

Juicy!

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/385757.html

Good to see that this thread has nearly twice as many posts as the entire SL vs Bang series thread.