Lillee vs Holding

[Migara]

We have seen some thought provoking and "throat" provoking ideas in the Lillee vs Imran thread. Here goes another. These two are contempories and have nearly identical records.

DK Lillee

MA Holding

Who is better?

 

[smash84]

In before Burgey jumps in with Imran

 

[Teja.]

Lillee

Think Marshall, Lillee, Imran, Garner, Hadlee, McGrath and Donald are close to impossible to split but consider them slightly superior to the rest of the post-1970 ATG pacers.

 

[Fusion]

Lillee for mine. I only have him behind Marshall, Hadlee, and Imran.

 

[Ikki]

Lillee

Think Marshall, Lillee, Imran, Garner, Hadlee, McGrath and Donald are close to impossible to split but consider them slightly superior to the rest of the post-1970 ATG pacers.

What happened to Waqar?

 

[Teja.]

What happened to Waqar?

Haha, I adore Waqar but I try very hard to keep my favoritism far away from my personal rating system.

 

[Ikki]

I remember you saying he was the best loads of times though, no?

 

[Teja.]

I remember you saying he was the best loads of times though, no?

Definitely would have an year ago or so, particularly in my more biased moments, The guy is one of my biggest heroes itbt. My stance towards his standing is now relatively permanent, I reckon.

It still pisses me of though when people say things such as "He was unstoppable on his day and had a sad trough" like they say of someone like Bishop and Akthar. At the end of the day, fulfilled or unfulfilled, His talent fetched him about 400 test wickets @ 23-odd over a 14 year long career which puts him among the greatest bowlers to have ever picked up a ball.

Ftr, I still rate him very highly, I'd have him immediately after the pacers mentioned and over blokes like Akram and Ambrose. A personal top 10 of the aforementioned era would contain those mentioned in the previous post,(Marshall, Lillee, Imran, Garner, Hadlee, McGrath and Donald) Warne, Murali and Waqar. He is also, IMO, in the top 20 bowlers of all-time.

 

[Ikki]

Well, it's good to change your mind about things. It is the mark of an educated mind. Still, I don't think it'd be completely biased to consider Waqar even in your original list. I guess it relates to the question. Are you talking about peak, are you talking about a career, are you talking about picking them in an ATG XI - and if you are, are you considering them when they were healthy, or as an amalgam of form across their career; their impact on the game, etc, so on.

 

[smash84]

between 1990-1994 Waqar was awesome at his toe crushing best.

Waqar Younis Stunning Yorkers - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VWLRBeuJU&feature=related

Not all of them toe crushers tbf

 

[Migara]

Holding hardly has a hole in his record except in NZ. Bowled well every where and has a better away average than home average.

 

[robelinda]

Holding.

 

[Burgey]

In before Burgey jumps in with Imran

Bugger.

 

[fredfertang]

Holding always had plenty of support - Lillee sometimes carried the Australian attack so he gets my vote

 

[Prince EWS]

I'll go with Lillee. Extremely close in terms of performance (they actually have exactly the same standardised average based on my formula ) but Lillee played a bit longer.

Splitting hairs really, like so many of these threads. Splitting hairs is fun though.

 

[robelinda]

But the aussies love listening to Michael, he sounds so cool.....Richie would agree, so gold

1992 - Still the 12th Man(Extended UK Verson)-part 3 - YouTube

 

[hang on]

lillee. by quite a margin. holding was blisteringly quick and had an action almost as smooth as his voice but he was not a complete bowler like the moustachioed one.

 

[Dissector]

Lillee. Both have similar stats but I would give Lillee credit for longevity and for being the leader of the attack and the "complete package".

 

[smash84]

But the aussies love listening to Michael, he sounds so cool.....Richie would agree, so gold

1992 - Still the 12th Man(Extended UK Verson)-part 3 - YouTube

lol.....funny

 

[Jono]

Definitely would have an year ago or so, particularly in my more biased moments, The guy is one of my biggest heroes itbt. My stance towards his standing is now relatively permanent, I reckon.

It still pisses me of though when people say things such as "He was unstoppable on his day and had a sad trough" like they say of someone like Bishop and Akthar. At the end of the day, fulfilled or unfulfilled, His talent fetched him about 400 test wickets @ 23-odd over a 14 year long career which puts him among the greatest bowlers to have ever picked up a ball.

Ftr, I still rate him very highly, I'd have him immediately after the pacers mentioned and over blokes like Akram and Ambrose. A personal top 10 of the aforementioned era would contain those mentioned in the previous post,(Marshall, Lillee, Imran, Garner, Hadlee, McGrath and Donald) Warne, Murali and Waqar. He is also, IMO, in the top 20 bowlers of all-time.

There is just no way in hell Waqar was better than Ambrose when you take their overall career, or hell, even a substantial part of their career.

At his peak yes. And you are right, Waqar's overall career was still amazing, but he ain't Ambrose.