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Thread: Latest on the supposed England phenoms?

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Latest on the supposed England phenoms?

    Please excuse the title, I don't like it but it gets my question across.

    Only a couple of years ago Billy Godleman and Sam Northeast were being talked about as very special players that could possibly be the mainstay of the England batting lineup for a generation. Both are still under 22 yrs old but their FC averages hover around 30 and both have done little this season (a combined 1 century in 28 FC games.)

    Clearly it is possible that people got carried away with praise very early in their careers. However, what do they look like at the moment? Have people seen a progression? Are they stagnating? Were they never that good in the first place? etc

    I ask as I have heard far more than I have seen of these two highly touted individuals.
    Last edited by Goughy; 08-09-2010 at 05:30 AM.
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  2. #2
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I've never seen Northeast play and Godleman not for ages and then only in one dayers. Tall batsman who seemed to like to get onto the front foot, which is mildly unusual for a English opener and definitely favoured the on side more.

    From memory he emerged about the same time as Joe Denly, who's obviously been tried and disgarded from our one-day set up but Denly always seemed the man more likely to from what I've read and seen.

    Wouldn't be the first chaps to be identified as "talents" and then fail to prosper in the county scene tho. Tres & Vaughan were both similar cases and (IIRC) probably had similar FC averages when they were summoned to take the Queen's shilling.

    James Taylor, he of the startling lack of height, the current annointed one by all accounts tho.
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    Hall of Fame Member _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    James Taylor, he of the startling lack of height, the current annointed one by all accounts tho.
    He's tiny!

    Impressive enough stats, though.

  4. #4
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Never been impressed by Godleman myself, wasn't really sure of all the hype and didn't really feel like it was warranted.
    Not sure about Northeast though, definitely taken a backwards step or 7.

    I'd sat the two batsmen to keep an eye out for are James Taylor, as Brumby mentioned, and Alex Hales. Hales's form has tailed off somewhat lately, but he made a very impressive start to his career, particularly in the Limited Overs formats.


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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    James Taylor, he of the startling lack of height, the current annointed one by all accounts tho.
    Not the "I've seen Fire and I've seen Rain" guy?!?!?!

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    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    I saw Northeast playing for Kent this year and he made a fairly decent half century, played some lovely shots mainly on the off side but always looked likely to nick one which he eventually did.

    He certainly 'looked' like a decent player, has had a poor year but so have most of the Kent batsmen, will be interesting to see how he goes next year (hopefully in the second division)

    Some younger guys have rather stollen these two's thunder though, Stokes and Butler being the obvious two. Vince has an awful lot of talent as well and I do think he will start going on to make big scores on a regulalr basis next season.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    With the record he's got so far, Taylor should be targetting a place in both limited overs formats next summer.

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    He's a fantastic runner between the wickets and an awesome fielder. Taken the best catch I've ever seen as well.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Northeast scored a stackload of runs for England U19 versus Bangladesh last summmer - not much else...
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    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    Some younger guys have rather stollen these two's thunder though, Stokes and Butler being the obvious two. Vince has an awful lot of talent as well and I do think he will start going on to make big scores on a regulalr basis next season.
    Next name to watch - Will Vanderspar at Middlesex.

    He has scored a huge amount of runs for Eton 1st XI this year - perhaps he might be one of the reasons Middlesex have been happy to let Shah depart?

  11. #11
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Please excuse the title, I don't like it but it gets my question across.

    Only a couple of years ago Billy Godleman and Sam Northeast were being talked about as very special players that could possibly be the mainstay of the England batting lineup for a generation. Both are still under 22 yrs old but their FC averages hover around 30 and both have done little this season (a combined 1 century in 28 FC games.)

    Clearly it is possible that people got carried away with praise very early in their careers. However, what do they look like at the moment? Have people seen a progression? Are they stagnating? Were they never that good in the first place? etc

    I ask as I have heard far more than I have seen of these two highly touted individuals.

    Seen alot of Northeast. Played againts him in school cricket even & he did well in a world school tournament in Barbados couple years back (Sir Garfield Sobers Under 19 school cricket cricket competition). Indeed he hasn't stepped up @ county level to date - but damn the boy is super talented young batsmen & his hype IMO was definately warranted. It be stunned & disappointed if he doesn't play for ENG one day. Not that you brought this up i'll be keeping further eye on Northeast from now on.

    Have barely seen much of Goldeman over the years, but i have never been that impressed the little i've seen TBF.

  12. #12
    Hall of Fame Member superkingdave's Avatar
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    I think its fair to say both haven't progressed as well as expected. There is still some hope for Northeast in particular. I think Godleman will end up a very good county batsman but nothing more.
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    Would it be unfair to say they were overhyped as they played for counties in the south and were just the best young players coming through down there.The southern bias in the media is ridiculous and over the years there have been many players connected to the southern counties who have been hyped up far greater than their ability deserves.

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    International Vice-Captain King Pietersen's Avatar
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    I've seen Northeast a few times, and been very impressed by him. He might not have scored a bulk load of runs, but he's looked pretty good whenever I have seen him. I am liking the fact that we've got so many young, talented batsmen coming through. There are so many guys making good strides in County Cricket, guys like James Taylor, Jos Buttler, James Hildreth, Alex Hales, Ben Stokes, James Vince, Sam Northeast, Adam Lyth, Rory Hamilton-Brown, Dawid Malan, Jonathan Bairstow and hell, Steven Davies is only 24, with Craig Kieswetter only 22; there's a heck of a lot of talent going around atm.

    Could make a pretty impressive batting line-up from that lot:

    Adam Lyth
    Alex Hales
    Rory Hamilton-Brown *
    James Taylor
    James Hildreth
    Jos Buttler
    Steven Davies +

    That could work for FC/Test cricket, and then:

    Rory Hamilton-Brown *
    Steven Davies +
    Alex Hales
    James Taylor
    James Hildreth
    Jos Buttler

    for OD/T20 cricket. They're pretty damn impressive line-ups. Hamilton-Brown might not have the best career stats yet, but I definitely see him playing International cricket eventually. He's looked so good with the bat whenever I've seen him, and he must have something about him character wise to be given the Surrey captaincy at 22. Being the right sort of character seems to be something Andy Flower likes for England, so should Flower hang around, Rory could definitely find himself in contention if he keeps putting in decent performances. Another good season in OD cricket next year, and he could be seriously considered for England duty I reckon.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by King Pietersen View Post
    I've seen Northeast a few times, and been very impressed by him. He might not have scored a bulk load of runs, but he's looked pretty good whenever I have seen him. I am liking the fact that we've got so many young, talented batsmen coming through. There are so many guys making good strides in County Cricket, guys like James Taylor, Jos Buttler, James Hildreth, Alex Hales, Ben Stokes, James Vince, Sam Northeast, Adam Lyth, Rory Hamilton-Brown, Dawid Malan, Jonathan Bairstow and hell, Steven Davies is only 24, with Craig Kieswetter only 22; there's a heck of a lot of talent going around atm.

    Could make a pretty impressive batting line-up from that lot:

    Adam Lyth
    Alex Hales
    Rory Hamilton-Brown *
    James Taylor
    James Hildreth
    Jos Buttler
    Steven Davies +

    That could work for FC/Test cricket, and then:

    Rory Hamilton-Brown *
    Steven Davies +
    Alex Hales
    James Taylor
    James Hildreth
    Jos Buttler

    for OD/T20 cricket. They're pretty damn impressive line-ups. Hamilton-Brown might not have the best career stats yet, but I definitely see him playing International cricket eventually. He's looked so good with the bat whenever I've seen him, and he must have something about him character wise to be given the Surrey captaincy at 22. Being the right sort of character seems to be something Andy Flower likes for England, so should Flower hang around, Rory could definitely find himself in contention if he keeps putting in decent performances. Another good season in OD cricket next year, and he could be seriously considered for England duty I reckon.
    Hildreth is 26 now and is pretty mediocre in limited overs cricket. When Buttler is scoring at 200+ strike rate Hildreth is usually at the other end struggling to make a run a ball.
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