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View Poll Results: Who really is the worst player to play Tests for England since 1990?

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  • Wayne Larkins

    0 0%
  • David Capel

    0 0%
  • Eddie Hemmings

    1 3.70%
  • Neil Williams

    0 0%
  • Derek Pringle

    0 0%
  • Ian Botham

    1 3.70%
  • Dermot Reeve

    0 0%
  • Mike Gatting

    0 0%
  • Paul Jarvis

    0 0%
  • John Emburey

    0 0%
  • Neil Foster

    0 0%
  • Mike Watkinson

    0 0%
  • Ben Hollioake

    1 3.70%
  • Gavin Hamilton

    2 7.41%
  • Chris Schofield

    2 7.41%
  • Usman Afzaal

    1 3.70%
  • James Ormond

    0 0%
  • Richard Dawson

    4 14.81%
  • Anthony McGrath

    1 3.70%
  • Gareth Batty

    1 3.70%
  • Geraint Jones

    0 0%
  • Liam Plunkett

    0 0%
  • Ian Blackwell

    1 3.70%
  • Sajid Mahmood

    9 33.33%
  • Darren Pattinson

    2 7.41%
  • Amjad Khan

    1 3.70%
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Thread: Who really is the worst player to play for England since 1990?

  1. #31
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    I dunno but Neil Smith surely needs to be on the list too. Highest ODI score of 31 against the might of the UAE in 1996. Was picked on the strength of his bowling (nude nuts, for the record) and ended up opening the batting!

  2. #32
    International Vice-Captain Noble One's Avatar
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    Voted for Dawson. Possibly the worst international spinner I have ever witnessed.

    Hardly recall him ever turning a delivery, and had no other redeeming feature like accuracy, drift or ability to change his pace up.

  3. #33
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble One View Post
    Voted for Dawson. Possibly the worst international spinner I have ever witnessed.

    Hardly recall him ever turning a delivery, and had no other redeeming feature like accuracy, drift or ability to change his pace up.
    Quite an exaggeration on Dawson if you ask me. Dawson never had a hope of succeeding at the test match level, but he certainly wasn't the worst spin bowler I have seen, and certainly not worse than Ian Salisbury. Couldn't care less about Salisbury's figures in domestic cricket, he played enough games at the international level to be considered the worst player since 1960. I don't believe the perspective that he 'froze' or underperformed at the international level.

    Anyhow, since he isn't on the list, my vote goes for Amjad Khan. How anyone could have expected him to succeed with that kind of action is beyond me. The lad could barely land 6 balls in an over on the pitch map. Schofield is the only other I can think off on that list that comes close to matching him.
    Last edited by tooextracool; 19-11-2009 at 11:58 PM.
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  4. #34
    Hall of Fame Member superkingdave's Avatar
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    No Rikki Clarke = epic fail


  5. #35
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Only in 1999, by which time he was long past his best. I have not, yet, fully familiarised myself with his entire story and don't deny that I may be mistaken in having him on the list. All I know is that by 1999 he was truly dreadful, performed awfully in his Tests and was plagued by injury all career.
    Jarvis may not have been an exceptional bowler but he certainly made a name for himself on the tour to India in 1992/93 where he stood out in the one day series by having Tendulkar in knots and then impressed many in the test series as well although he was probably not test class. Don't think he comes close to as poor as the rest on that list.

    And what on earth is Ormond on that list for? County pro who could swing the ball both ways at a decent pace and really only didnt get a consistent run in the test side because of his weight issues.

  6. #36
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Ok I can understand the frustration with Mahmood and he really shouldn't be in any of the England squads at the moment but worst player in the last 50 years? You dont go around taking cheap wickets for the A team in some of the harshest bowling conditions for pace bowlers- India, WI and SL at an average in the low 20s if that was true. Mahmood is not a good bowler, but if he gets his accuracy sorted out, he has the potential to be a very good one.

  7. #37
    International Coach wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Dawson was horrendous, Jarvis laughable.

    But who the **** is Neil Williams?
    Middlesex seamer who, iirc, won his single cap against India in 1990.
    You have to remember that our domestic game didn't produce much in the way of quality in the late 1980s

  8. #38
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Using Richard's criteria, Neil Foster and Mike Gatting should be nowhere near that list. They were among the best seamers and batsmen (respectively) in domestic cricket when picked in the early 90s.

    A couple of the spinners in the list are outstandingly bad but, again, John Emburey should be nowhere near that list as he too was still a very fine bowler in the early 90s - and enjoyed notable success (IIRC) by bowling a more attacking line than he had in the 80s.

    Joey Benjamin also fortunate to escape nomination, but perhaps not as bad a pick as NF Williams. Who incidentally had probably the least sensible initials for a non-white player.

  9. #39
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Because they were both absolutely awful by the time they received their totally erroneous recalls in 1991 and 1992/93 respectively. And Gatting even got picked again in 1994/95. Make no mistake, Botham had once been a brilliant player and Gatting a very fine one, but the fact that either played in the 1990s served to do nothing but taint their legacies. Botham should have played last in 1987 and Gatting should never have returned after electing for that Rebel tour in 1989.
    The "absolutely awful" Mike Gatting in first class cricket in 1992, before his totally erroneous recall in 92/93:

    10 x 50
    6 x 100

    Of his 50s, five were scores of 86 or higher. With a bit luck he could have scored 11 FC centuries that year.

    If England could select some more "absolutely awful" players of that class, we'd be sitting pretty.

    He was arguably the best player in the country at that point.

    Mike Gatting in first class cricket in 1994 before his selection in 94/95:

    6 50s
    6 centuries including 3 double centuries

    His double centuries, 2 of them unbeaten, came against
    - England A (McCague, Ilott, Bicknell, Dale, Such, Croft)
    - Leicestershire (Millns and Mullally)
    - Northants (Ambrose).

    At this point he was still arguably the best player in the country.

  10. #40
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    Most of the names on that list shouldn't have played for England in a million years (excluding those that peaked pre-1990.) There's a few not on the list that are worthy of a dishonourable mention having merited selection and then turned out to be dung.
    Ian Salisbury
    Jason Gallian
    Martin McCague

  11. #41
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool View Post
    Ok I can understand the frustration with Mahmood and he really shouldn't be in any of the England squads at the moment but worst player in the last 50 years? You dont go around taking cheap wickets for the A team in some of the harshest bowling conditions for pace bowlers- India, WI and SL at an average in the low 20s if that was true. Mahmood is not a good bowler, but if he gets his accuracy sorted out, he has the potential to be a very good one.
    Pfft, but he plays his county cricket at Old Trafford and averages over 30.

    Mahmood isn't the worst player in the world, he'd just horribly inconsistent and nowhere near good enough when he's firing to make up for the dross he bowls when he's not.

  12. #42
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    This kind of contradicts the point you keep making about it being the worst cricketers in general and not the worst performed cricketers in Tests though, doesn't? They may have been poor when they played in the 90s but they were good players all the same.
    UIMM they were just poor players in the 1990s in general, not merely at Test level. I've said it many times; a good player does not remain a good player for life, he is only good for a finite time. Gatting was no longer any good come 1992/93 and certainly come 1994/95; Botham was absolutely horribly bad (given how good he'd once been) come 1991. Pringle had once been deserving of a Test call (not Test-class nor close to it) but he wasn't come 1991 and there were many better options.

    It's important to emphasise that all the players concerned had had breaks from their Test career; they received recalls in the 1990s, some of which were rather unexpected and near enough all of which were criticised to some extent.
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  13. #43
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    I dunno but Neil Smith surely needs to be on the list too. Highest ODI score of 31 against the might of the UAE in 1996. Was picked on the strength of his bowling (nude nuts, for the record) and ended up opening the batting!
    I've written that Neil Smith's case more than perhaps any other demonstrates the cluelessness with which England's selectors approached ODI cricket in the later part of the 1990s and the entire 2000s, but mercifully no-one ever considered him for Tests.
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  14. #44
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkingdave View Post
    No Rikki Clarke = epic fail
    Only played against Bangladesh; Bangladesh not Test-class; players who only played against Bangladesh discounted.
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  15. #45
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    What were Botham's stats in the 90's like?

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