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Who really is the worst player to play for England since 1990?

Who really is the worst player to play Tests for England since 1990?

  • Wayne Larkins

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • David Capel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neil Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Derek Pringle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dermot Reeve

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Gatting

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul Jarvis

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • John Emburey

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neil Foster

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Watkinson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • James Ormond

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Geraint Jones

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Liam Plunkett

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
.............. and what's Mike Watkinson doing in such a list - surely that matchsaving innings against the WIndies disqualifies him?
Was dropped by Campbell to allow him to play it TBF. :ph34r:

Seriously, surely even the most delighted Lancastrian cannot claim they honestly believed Watkinson had it in him to play the post-dropped-catch part of that knock? His even appearing at Test level was quite extraordinary; his playing an important part in a series which had a pretty good outcome for England was even more so.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Where's Aftab Habib?
There is no way he's remotely close to being the worst. Good batsman who may or may not have been Test-standard but was never given the slightest chance to show either way (if you said someone was a no-hoper after 3 Test innings' you wouldn't have many Test-class batsmen).
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
In 1992 the distinctly ordinary Tim Munton and Neil Mallender both got called up against Pakistan - in fairness to Mallender he had a good game at Headingley but Munton looked totally unremarkable
Munton for me, like Steve Watkin, Martin Bicknell, Phil Newport, Martin McCague, Peter Martin, Mike Smith, Kabir Ali and Jonathan Lewis, got a ridiculously raw deal. There can of course be no certainty that any of those bowlers would have been Test-class and in fact in the cases of some I'd be fairly confident they wouldn't be. But all were a damn sight more likely to be than the Neil Williamses, Ben Hollioakes, Chris Schofields, Richard Dawsons, Gareth Battys, Liam Plunketts, Ian Blackwells, Sajid Mahmoods, Darren Pattinsons and Amjad Khans. And in fact also than the David Lawrences, Paul Taylors, Alan Igglesdens, Joey Benjamins, Min Patels, Mark Ealhams, Simon Browns, Chris Silverwoods, Ed Giddinses, James Kirtleys, Martin Saggerses, Shaun Udals and Chris Tremletts. It's an example of how woeful England selection typically is that some of those within the latter lot played ahead of some of those within the former lot - ever.

As a selector all you can do is make the best of what you've got; the moment you try to make moderate or poor players into good ones by picking them ahead of decent ones, you're damaging your team's prospects.

Mallender meanwhile was one of the most obvious short-term selections and I can't say I, in hindsight, have much against it. He was a decent enough bowler, was exactly what was needed at the time and was obviously not going to be picked again after the summer.
 
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Craig

World Traveller
Can't believe Kabir Ali hasn't gotten another Test, considering how good is FC record is, when considering there have been randoms picked (Amjad Khan) and guys nobody had ever heard of (Darren Pattinson). Obviously I don't watch County Cricket (since I don't live in England), but as an outsider, his record looks pretty good.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Munton for me, like Steve Watkin, Martin Bicknell, Phil Newport, Martin McCague, Peter Martin, Mike Smith, Kabir Ali and Jonathan Lewis, got a ridiculously raw deal. There can of course be no certainty that any of those bowlers would have been Test-class and in fact in the cases of some I'd be fairly confident they wouldn't be. But all were a damn sight more likely to be than the Neil Williamses, Ben Hollioakes, Chris Schofields, Richard Dawsons, Gareth Battys, Liam Plunketts, Ian Blackwells, Sajid Mahmoods, Darren Pattinsons and Amjad Khans. And in fact also than the David Lawrences, Paul Taylors, Alan Igglesdens, Joey Benjamins, Min Patels, Mark Ealhams, Simon Browns, Chris Silverwoods, Ed Giddinses, James Kirtleys, Martin Saggerses, Shaun Udals and Chris Tremletts.
Disagree with a number of your targets there. Ealham, Silverwood, Giddins and Tremlett were all good bowlers and weren't necessarily any worse than, say, McCague or Newport.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Was dropped by Campbell to allow him to play it TBF. :ph34r:

Seriously, surely even the most delighted Lancastrian cannot claim they honestly believed Watkinson had it in him to play the post-dropped-catch part of that knock? His even appearing at Test level was quite extraordinary; his playing an important part in a series which had a pretty good outcome for England was even more so.
It's fair to say that Watki did look like a sitting duck prior to his let off but once he settled down he batted bloody well with the tail in a high pressure situation - I agree his selection for England at 34 looked odd but he was having a fine season and had been taking wickets for two or three seasons with that somewhat unconventional off spin of his - some of the gloss has gone since his unsuccessful stint as coach but as a player he was enormously popular in Lancashire - it is said we have short arms and deep pockets but in 95, which just happened to be his benefit year, Watki netted 209k - all tax free of course - so I don't suppose he cares too much how history judges his test career
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Can't believe Kabir Ali hasn't gotten another Test, considering how good is FC record is, when considering there have been randoms picked (Amjad Khan) and guys nobody had ever heard of (Darren Pattinson). Obviously I don't watch County Cricket (since I don't live in England), but as an outsider, his record looks pretty good.
Yes, was taking wickets at an astonishing rate a few years ago but has been bogged down by injuries, it would seem.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'd probably say Dawson followed by Sajid Mahmood and Chris Schofiled.
Those would probably be my top three, though my top four would be them + Amjad Khan and in all honesty it would be fair to pick any order from the four.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Disagree with a number of your targets there. Ealham, Silverwood, Giddins and Tremlett were all good bowlers and weren't necessarily any worse than, say, McCague or Newport.
I'd argue that Silverwood, Giddins and Tremlett were all potentially as good as McCague, Newport and the rest (Ealham not quite so TBH, much as I loved him as a OD bowler), but McCague et al performed better for longer than they did. Tremlett especially has in my view never really come close to realising his potential, and time is fast running-out. I reckon it's next year or never for him.

Silverwood for instance was very good for 3 years but thereafter never managed to stay fit for that long; Giddins was good for quite a while but never managed to be quite as good as he should have been due to his propensity for carelessness; Tremlett as I say has just not fulfilled his potential; Ealham, well, he was certainly good and very reliable but never outstanding (you'd never say that he was the sort of bowler to lead an attack even in county cricket, whereas I'd say all of Silverwood, Giddins and Tremlett at times were; McCague et al certainly were).

All the bowlers I named (McCague, Newport, Munton, Watkin, Martin Bicknell, Mike Smith, Martin, Kabir Ali, Lewis) had lengthy periods where they performed very well (not just well) for season after season. IIRR in the case of each you can pick a period of minimum 5 consecutive seasons (sometimes many more) where they averaged ~25, which is obviously very good indeed. Giddins averaged more ~28 over a similar period (and obviously missed loads of cricket he should have been playing); Silverwood's best was as I say 3.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I'd say, objectively, it's probably Dawson. Salisbury's bowling was probably worse at test level (although much more of a threat at CC level), but he was a decent lower order batsman, which is also true of Schofield, so as a cricketing package it'd be Dawson IMHO. Dawson not a rabbit, but no more than a half-decent #10 at test level.

Amjad probably down there too.
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Can't believe Kabir Ali hasn't gotten another Test, considering how good is FC record is, when considering there have been randoms picked (Amjad Khan) and guys nobody had ever heard of (Darren Pattinson). Obviously I don't watch County Cricket (since I don't live in England), but as an outsider, his record looks pretty good.
Yeah, had a ridiculous 2008 season. 59 wickets @ 18.74 and a SR of 31.67. As has been said though, injuries are a fairly big part of his non-selection.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I reckon there's a substantial chance even if Kabir Ali had had a McGrath\Walsh-esque injury-free record he'd quite possibly still have played just that one Test. Which, given that the Amjad Khans, Pattinsons, etc. (even Onionses - he may yet go down as a one-season wonder or he may end-up a good Test bowler; his case remains to be assessed) have played at all is simply a disgrace. I have plenty of doubts over whether Kabir Ali would make a Test-standard bowler but he's a damn sight more likely to than plenty of others who've been tried in the last 6 years have been. Same is true of Lewis, and his case extends back further still.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
maybe Ronnie Irani should also be on that list
Nope Ronnie Irani may have been well below Test-standard and in a stronger time would not have played at all but there's absolutely no way he's anywhere near as bad as anyone on that list. Yes, better even than the ageing Botham who played in the 1990s.
 

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