Trouble in the English camp : Pietersen Vs Moores!?

[BoyBrumby]

Oh, but Collingwood quit of his own accord, seriously

If you really believe that I've got some magic beans you might be interested in purchasing at a knock-down price...

 

[GIMH]

What a coincidence, Colly & Vaughan both deciding to quit at the same time!

 

[Harry Harrison]

What a coincidence, Colly & Vaughan both deciding to quit at the same time!

 

[Richard]

What a coincidence, Colly & Vaughan both deciding to quit at the same time!

Some people have you believe both were pushed, what's more.

The reasoning might've been sound (that for payday purposes the captain had to be the same in Tests and Twenty20) but sadly, it's backfired big-time.

 

[ozone]

The reasoning might've been sound (that for payday purposes the captain had to be the same in Tests and Twenty20)

TBH, its a sad day that the choice of captain is made based on making it more convenient in a monetary sense.

 

[Burgey]

What an extraordinary melt down.

 

[wpdavid]

It seems a little worrying that there's basically going to be no "head of the team" figure - Phil Neale's merits as Operations Manager are excellent, but he's not a manager manager.

Nonetheless, hopefully this will convince people that the need for a "head coach" might be spurious. But clearly, there needs to be some sort of headman, in time, and I don't like the idea of that headman being Geoff Miller, the CoS.

Not sure what you meant by your last comment regarding Neale. Obv I'm not really ina position to judge, but he's struck me as an excellent candidate for team manager if we went down that path. Strong character who's handled some big personalities in his time. He's struck me as the type who believes in speaking softly but carrying a big stick, which must be the way to go

 

[pasag]

Shoulda kept Collingwood. Jesus, what a mess.

Yeah, it really is beautiful in terms of its perfection as a mess. Collingwood surely has to be recalled for the ODI captaincy.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah, it really is beautiful in terms of its perfection as a mess.

I know I'm in a very small minority, but I really don't think so. It looks messy because a couple of large & unpleasant boils have been lanced, which will create a certain amount of fallout. But beyond that, we've ditched a coach who was taking the team nowhere and a captain who was always going to flounce off at some stage when he didn't have his way.

I've read a lot of stuff about how lousy the timing is, but it could have been a heck of a lot worse - about six months time springs immediately to mind. As it stands, there is time for the dust to settle whilst we're playing one of the less challenging test sides before the bigger challenges later in the year.

Admittedly I may not feel the same if KP does completely leave the England setup, but that may depend on the guys who don't like him being smart enough to realise that they need him in the side and acting accordingly.

 

[wpdavid]

btw there's a few KP jokes doing the rounds that made me smile. One I read for the first time yesterday, about him wanting to join the navy so that the world could see him.

The other one is older, about his nickname of 'Figjam', but I can't remember what all of it stands for. I know the first three letters are "**** I'm great" but after that I'm struggling.

 

[fredfertang]

Not sure what you meant by your last comment regarding Neale. Obv I'm not really ina position to judge, but he's struck me as an excellent candidate for team manager if we went down that path. Strong character who's handled some big personalities in his time. He's struck me as the type who believes in speaking softly but carrying a big stick, which must be the way to go

Despite all the mockery he got in the tabloids when he managed England Graham Taylor had a decent track record in management as did Colin Murphy, the two managers Phil Neale played under in his decade or so at Lincoln City - IMO he's a great call for team manager

....... he has a degree in Russian too......

albeit from Leeds University

 

[BoyBrumby]

I know I'm in a very small minority, but I really don't think so. It looks messy because a couple of large & unpleasant boils have been lanced, which will create a certain amount of fallout. But beyond that, we've ditched a coach who was taking the team nowhere and a captain who was always going to flounce off at some stage when he didn't have his way.

I've read a lot of stuff about how lousy the timing is, but it could have been a heck of a lot worse - about six months time springs immediately to mind. As it stands, there is time for the dust to settle whilst we're playing one of the less challenging test sides before the bigger challenges later in the year.

Admittedly I may not feel the same if KP does completely leave the England setup, but that may depend on the guys who don't like him being smart enough to realise that they need him in the side and acting accordingly.

A Pietersen flounce isn't without precedent, tbf. Natal & Notts to confirm.

On the subject of jokes, Gideon Haigh related a rather wry one yesterday regarding the low esteen in which Australians hold English coaches:

The old story is of the English boy told to change his grip by his English public schoolmaster. "But, sir," protests the boy, "this is the way Bradman held it, sir." The schoolmaster sniffs: "Just think how many runs Bradman would have made had he held the bat correctly."

 

[zaremba]

The other one is older, about his nickname of 'Figjam', but I can't remember what all of it stands for. I know the first three letters are "**** I'm great" but after that I'm struggling.

"... Just Ask Me."

 

[Richard]

Despite all the mockery he got in the tabloids when he managed England Graham Taylor had a decent track record in management as did Colin Murphy, the two managers Phil Neale played under in his decade or so at Lincoln City - IMO he's a great call for team manager

....... he has a degree in Russian too......

albeit from Leeds University

The footballer (and former football manager) Phil Neale is the same as the cricket one?

 

[Richard]

TBH, its a sad day that the choice of captain is made based on making it more convenient in a monetary sense.

It's not just that. It's vital that as much as possible is done to avoid the perception that Twenty20 is where the real importance is, and that Tests are a distant second (or third). The massive paydays for Twenty20 that Allen Stanford is (was?) providing have the potential to damage the desire for the development of Test skills in the next generation of players as players realise that the real earnings are to be made by developing their Twenty20 ones.

Ensuring that the Test players - captain especially - don't suffer exclusion is one small way to decrease the "it's Twenty20 and only Twenty20 that matters" perception.

In its way, the selection of Pietersen as Test captain could be seen to be a gamble to try to minimise long-term damage at the expense of the short-term. Something you see precious rarely from cricket administrators.

 

[Richard]

Not sure what you meant by your last comment regarding Neale. Obv I'm not really ina position to judge, but he's struck me as an excellent candidate for team manager if we went down that path. Strong character who's handled some big personalities in his time. He's struck me as the type who believes in speaking softly but carrying a big stick, which must be the way to go

Not sure TBH. Neale's responsibilities as Operations Manager, as I understand it, are matters such as organising press-conferences, booking nets and making sure the team shirts arrive clean and ironed. The job that he's performed admirably well for the last decade or so is a very, very different job to actually managing the team. That was where Duncan Fletcher excelled, and where the likes of John Buchanan and Bob Woolmer have excelled for other teams.

 

[fredfertang]

The footballer (and former football manager) Phil Neale is the same as the cricket one?

Cricket's Phil Neale played for Lincoln City for years but was never a football manager - I think you are probably thinking of Phil Neal, who I remember as a Liverpool stalwart who, so far as I am aware, has no significant cricketing history nor a degree in Russia or indeed anything else but did manage Bolton or Burnley or some such Lancashire team

 

[Richard]

Always thought the other Phil Neal had an e on the end as well TBH - but the only place I've ever come accross him was Merlin's Premier League '94 Sticker Collection, which is somewhere in some bookshelf I've not looked in for about 7 years and haven't actually taken anything out of for about 10, if not more. So perhaps it's not entirely surprising if I remember incorrectly.

Pretty sure he was Coventry manager or something. Certainly it was some Premiership team in the '94/95 season.

Either way - as I'd always thought, they're not the same person then?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Cricket's Phil Neale played for Lincoln City for years but was never a football manager - I think you are probably thinking of Phil Neal, who I remember as a Liverpool stalwart who, so far as I am aware, has no significant cricketing history nor a degree in Russia or indeed anything else but did manage Bolton or Burnley or some such Lancashire team

Phil Neal was also Mr Taylor's number 2 (in every sense of the phrase) when the latter was England manager.

Phil Neale the last player to successfully combine football and cricket careers if memory serves.

 

[fredfertang]

I suspect you are correct - IIRC Chris Marples did combine the two but I'm not convinced you could describe him as doing so "successfully"