Trouble in the English camp : Pietersen Vs Moores!?

[susudear]

Oops.

http://cricketnext.in.com/news/pietersenmoores-tiff-reaches-boiling-point/37137-13.html

England cricket captain Kevin Pietersen has called for crisis talks with the chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board, over what he sees as irreconcilable differences between him and head coach Peter Moores.

Telegraph Sport understands that the meeting with Giles Clarke, which follows a troubled start to England's winter, has been called for early January once Pietersen concludes his safari holiday in Africa.

With the Ashes series just six months away, Clarke could be forced to take bold action with both Pietersen and Moores under pressure after a series of poor results.

England were humiliated during the Stanford Series and endured a difficult tour to India where they were thrashed 5-0 in the one-day series before the Mumbai atrocities cut short the series. They then squandered the first Test in Madras when Sachin Tendulkar masterminded the fourth biggest run chase in Test history. England lost the series 1-0.

Moores endured a difficult relationship with Pietersen’s predecessor Michael Vaughan and it is believed that Pietersen has run out of patience with Moores.

With relations between the pair at a nadir, Clarke could struggle to negotiate a peace between the two men. If that fails then the ECB may be forced to change captain or coach, a potentially damaging move with a wounded Australia team set to tour in the summer.

As coach, Moores has lost four out of seven Test series, including defeats in home rubbers to India and South Africa, since taking over from Duncan Fletcher in April 2007.

The ECB have allowed him to assemble an expensive backroom staff which could make removing Moores a costly and protracted affair, especially if a new man wanted to bring in his own trusted lieutenants.

As ECB chairman, Clarke spent the entire Test series in India travelling with the England team and will have gauged the mood in the camp at close quarters.

During the tour Clarke made a pointed reference that the team had to start producing results. "We have targets that people are expected to achieve and we expect people to do better than those targets," he said. "We're a national sport. We have to have a successful Test side."

The England team depart for their tour to the West Indies on Jan 21 leaving little time for any changes to me made.

 

[Rant0r]

sounds like english fans might be starting to hope for a fletcher return, who would have thought

 

[ozone]

Don't know how other english fans felt, but I always thought we got rid of Fletcher too soon. Whether we did or not, I would put a lot of money on him not returning to the job.

Rumours are that Pietersens going to kick-off about Vaughan not being included in the squad for the West Indies.

 

[FBU]

We will either have a new captain or a new coach by the end of the month. How can Pietersen and Moores work together when there is a headline like this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...d-skipper-wants-coach-Moores-Vaughan-row.html


Pietersen could always go for Vaughan as the new coach or he might prefer his other friend, Giles. Then again the ECB might pick a new captain like Strauss, who might find himself playing one day cricket again.

 

[GIMH]

It's the mail, but on the face of it it sounds quite serious

 

[zaremba]

We will either have a new captain or a new coach by the end of the month. How can Pietersen and Moores work together when there is a headline like this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...d-skipper-wants-coach-Moores-Vaughan-row.html


Pietersen could always go for Vaughan as the new coach or he might prefer his other friend, Giles. Then again the ECB might pick a new captain like Strauss, who might find himself playing one day cricket again.

I truly hope that the ECB will not be guided by headlines from the Daily Mail. Hurrah for the Blackshirts!

 

[ozone]

Thinking along similar lines, even though it is in The Mail, it's quite worrying. I dunno who would get the backing from Giles Clarke either, so the only way this story will go away (if it is true) without any serious repercussions is if Moores backs-down and Vaughan goes on tour.

 

[FBU]

It's the mail, but on the face of it it sounds quite serious

They do get some stories right. The last one was an exclusive the night before the last Test saying Harmison was going to be dropped for Broad. None of the other papers had Harmison as the one for the drop.

 

[Goughy]

KP was never the right guy for the job as England captain. However, that doesnt mean he is wrong in this regard.

It is entirely possible that Moores is also the wrong person for the job (his record in man management and series results suggests this) as well.

Id suggest getting rid of both if it wouldn't be such a distraction and overhaul before the Ashes against a vulnerable Australia.

Moores cant be jettisoned at he moment and getting rid of KP would cause all sorts of unrest.

Mistakes have been made but I dont think they can be resolved at the moment.

 

[Jono]

Who do you suggest should have been chosen instead of KP?

 

[ozone]

Who do you suggest should have been chosen instead of KP?

Only one option really if he does resign/get sacked, Strauss.

 

[FBU]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...ks-with-Kevin-Pietersen-and-Peter-Moores.html

The relationship between Moores and Pietersen has broken down this winter to such an extent that Morris may have to abandon his planned holiday next week to consult senior figures around the England dressing room.

Morris will also be aware that Pietersen is not universally liked in the England dressing room and Moores has his supporters. Only a handful of players - Pietersen, Strauss, Andrew Flintoff and perhaps Paul Collingwood - are confident of their places to speak out against either coach or captain. There will also be some who will question whether the captain has the right to pick and choose the coach.

 

[Richard]

KP was never the right guy for the job as England captain. However, that doesnt mean he is wrong in this regard.

I thought you gave about the only good reason I could think of for Pietersen having the captaincy - the fact that, for the purposes of paydays, the Test and Twenty20 (and thus ODI) captains had to be the same person.

I always thought Duncan Fletcher shouldn't have been forced out - and he was, there's no doubt about that - and I hope some people might regret that now, including the newspaper writers whose fault it mostly was.

Never been too sure about Moores TBH but he's certainly been far from impressive.

 

[zaremba]

KP was never the right guy for the job as England captain. However, that doesnt mean he is wrong in this regard.

It is entirely possible that Moores is also the wrong person for the job (his record in man management and series results suggests this) as well.

Id suggest getting rid of both if it wouldn't be such a distraction and overhaul before the Ashes against a vulnerable Australia.

Moores cant be jettisoned at he moment and getting rid of KP would cause all sorts of unrest.

Mistakes have been made but I dont think they can be resolved at the moment.

Before he went to England, Moores' record in terms of both man-management and results was absolutely outstanding - strikingly so. Has he suddenly become a bad man-manager or coach with England? I doubt it, although it's hard to say for sure from the outside. But something certainly seems not to be right for both Vaughan and Pietersen to have expressed their discontent about him.

I'm surprised that KP should see fit to throw his weight so publicly about in this way - an error of judgment in my view.

 

[Goughy]

Who do you suggest should have been chosen instead of KP?

There are a few better candidates. As I stated at the time, the prime reason for KP being given the captaincy was to ensure the Test captain was part of the Stanford Million dollar game and to avoid the awkward situation where the T20 captain gets paid massively more than the Test captain.

Sticking to what I said at the time, Strauss would be a far better candidate as Test captain.

KP doesnt have the needed skills to do the job effectively. From my POV it is almost anyone but KP or Flintoff.

a) They are too important to the team to risk overburdening or having the captaincy effect their game
b) The best captains need to be able to subjugate themselves for the team.
c) Good captains need to be skilled in behind the scenes politics and used to dealing with people ranging from committee men down to players
d) Captains cant afford the buddy approach, which both KP and Flintoff seem to follow.

 

[wpdavid]

There will also be some who will question whether the captain has the right to pick and choose the coach.

Indeed. Still it's not like KP to throw the toys out of the pram when he doesn't get his way, is it.

 

[Uppercut]

Before he went to England, Moores' record in terms of both man-management and results was absolutely outstanding - strikingly so. Has he suddenly become a bad man-manager or coach with England? I doubt it, although it's hard to say for sure from the outside. But something certainly seems not to be right for both Vaughan and Pietersen to have expressed their discontent about him.

I'm surprised that KP should see fit to throw his weight so publicly about in this way - an error of judgment in my view.

"Good man-manager" and "bad man-manager" aren't very accurate terms, some people don't get on and others do. He could be too controlling for KP, or on the SK Warne end of the spectrum KP could feel that he offers nothing of value to the side. If they don't work well together it might be for the best if one of them goes, but i don't think the ECB are willing to hang Moores out to dry so we'll see whether there's an element of bluff to KP's current frustration.

It'll all make for good reading when the autobiographies come out.

 

[ozone]

I'm surprised that KP should see fit to throw his weight so publicly about in this way - an error of judgment in my view.

Yea it does seem unusual, although Pietersens reasons for any such outbursts wouldn't be without reason; he might be an arrogant **** but he is also clever and would know that it isn't a certainty for the selectors to back him in an argument with Moores. If, and it is a big if, the reports are true, it just shows how much Pietersen seems to want Vaughan in the side.

 

[BoyBrumby]

From what I've read quite a few of the players weren't too happy with the increased fitness drills in Sri Lanka & NZ on our last winter's tours, so suspect he might have something of the martinet about him.

Have never been entirely convinced by him and think he was appointed with almost indecent haste after Big Dunc wobbled away. We were told he's a first rate coach (did v well at Sussex tbf), but I seriously doubt we'd have faced too much competition for his services from other countries.

Let's be realisitc tho; KP or Moores. Only one winner there, isn't there?

 

[tooextracool]

Cannot logically see how anyone can provide a convincing argument to have Vaughan in the squad. He was left out of the England tour to India on the premise that he scored runs in first class cricket and nothing has changed since then in that regard so there is little point going back to him so that one can yearn for his glory days. If Pietersen needs Vaughan by his side in order to help him with his decision making then that creates questions marks over whether he should have been been made captain ITFP.

As far as Moores is concerned, its hard to guage his contribution as coach but the fact of the matter is that England havent progressed since he took charge, and with Harmison out and the need for Vaughan it appears as though they are going back to the side that got thrashed by SA during the summer. Whilst the selection policies have been better under him than with Fletcher at the helm, results dont lie and England have lost not one but 2 home series under him whilst they only managed one loss in the 7 years before he came into charge.